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Emma Hewlett Rivers and Dorothy Richmond Hewlett oral history interview

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Material Information

Title:
Emma Hewlett Rivers and Dorothy Richmond Hewlett oral history interview
Series Title:
Sulphur Springs oral history project
Physical Description:
1 sound file (95 min.) : digital, MPEG4 file + ;
Language:
English
Creator:
Rivers, Emma Hewlett
Brown, Connie J
University of South Florida Libraries -- Florida Studies Center. -- Oral History Program
University of South Florida -- Tampa Library
Publisher:
University of South Florida Tampa Library
Place of Publication:
Tampa, Fla
Publication Date:

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Sisters-in-law -- Florida -- Tampa   ( lcsh )
Sisters-in-law -- Florida -- Hillsborough County   ( lcsh )
Women -- Florida -- Tampa   ( lcsh )
Women -- Florida -- Hillsborough County   ( lcsh )
Social life and customs -- Sulphur Springs (Tampa, Fla.)   ( lcsh )
Social life and customs -- Tampa (Fla.)   ( lcsh )
Social life and customs -- Hillsborough County (Fla.)   ( lcsh )
Genre:
Oral history   ( local )
Online audio   ( local )
Oral history.   ( local )
Online audio.   ( local )
interview   ( marcgt )

Notes

Summary:
Oral history interview with Emma Hewlett Rivers and Dorothy Richmond Hewlett, longtime residents of Sulphur Springs. Rivers and Hewlett are sisters-in-law, the latter having married the former's brother. Hewlett's father was a grocery store meat cutter, while Rivers' was a mechanic who owned a gas station. Both women married men from Sulphur Springs and raised their children in the neighborhood. In this interview, they describes the social life and customs of Sulphur Springs, including recreational activities, education, local businesses, food and drink, going to church, and friends.
Venue:
Interview conducted October 14, 2003.
Statement of Responsibility:
interviewed by Connie J. Brown

Record Information

Source Institution:
University of South Florida Library
Holding Location:
University of South Florida
Rights Management:
All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
aleph - 002331772
oclc - 690912254
usfldc doi - S68-00003
usfldc handle - s68.3
System ID:
SFS0021950:00001


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Full Text

PAGE 1

COPYRIGHT NOTICE This Oral History is copyrighted by the University of South Florida Libraries Oral History Program on behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of South Florida. Copyright, 20 1 0 University of South Florida. All rights, reserved This oral history may be used for research, instruction, and private study under the provisions of the Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of the United States Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section 107), which allows limited use of copyrig hted materials under certain conditions. Fair Use limits the amount of material that may be used. For all other permissions and requests, contact the UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA LIBRARIES ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at the University of South Florida, 4202 E. Fo wler Avenue, LIB 122, Tampa, FL 33620.


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Oral history interview with Emma Hewlett Rivers and Dorothy Richmond Hewlett, longtime residents of Sulphur Springs. Rivers and Hewlett are sisters-in-law, the latter having married the former's brother. Hewlett's father was a grocery store meat cutter, while Rivers' was a mechanic who owned a gas station. Both women married men from Sulphur Springs and raised their children in the neighborhood. In this interview, they describes the social life and customs of Sulphur Springs, including recreational activities, education, local businesses, food and drink, going to church, and friends.
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text Connie Brown: This is an interview with Dorothy Richmond Hewlett and Emma Hewlett Rivers, resident of Sulphur Springs, Florida, conducted in Mrs. Riverss home on October 14, 2003 by C.J. Brown, graduate student in anthropology from the University of South Florida.  First of all, ladies, let me tell you thank you so much for allowing me to interview you.  I hope you enjoy this trip down memory lane as much as I know Im going to.  And I want to start off by asking you what year you moved to Sulphur Springs and how you came to be in Sulphur Springs.  Mrs. Rivers?
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Emma Rivers: I was born here in 1924.
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CB: Okay, were you born in the home or in a hospital?
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ER: Home.
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CB: And where would that be?
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ER: In my grandmothers home.  We lived there when my mom and dad first got married, and that was on Nebraska Avenue8526 Nebraska Avenue.
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CB: Okay, and did you
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ER: The Carpet Barn is there now.
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CB: Oh! And how long did you live there before your parents moved somewhere else?
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ER: Not real sure.  We went to South Carolina, and Oscar was born there, two years after me.
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CB: So you came back to Sulphur Springs when you were how old?
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ER: Yes, uh-huh.
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CB: Okay, how old were you when you came back?
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ER: Im not sure.
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Dorothy Hewlett: He was very young (inaudible).
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ER: I dont know
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CB: So you werebefore you went to school then?
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ER: Oh, yeah.
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CB: So you didnt come back as a teenager?
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ER: No.
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CB: You were a young, young child.  Okay, okay.  And Mrs. Hewlett?
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DH: I was born in 1926 at Richmond Hospitalthat would be downtown Tampa where the (inaudible) branch used to be.
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CB: Okay.
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DH: And my family lived on the corner of Fowler [Avenue] and Nebraska.  My dad had a garage (inaudible).
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CB: And did you live there till you married?
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DH: Well, till I was eighteen.  Then we moved into the Springs itself, lived on Brooks Street, and there I met Oscar.  We married and then (inaudible).
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CB: So you were sister-in-laws.  Were you friends before you met Oscar or were you friends after you married Oscar?
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DH: Well, I guess friends after
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ER: After, cause I dont remember you before.
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DH: I remember Oscar in school.  He was two years ahead of me, but you know, he was alreadyhed gone into high school, then he went in the service after.  So, after he came back.
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CB: So how did you meet?
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DH: At a skating rink in the Springs.
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CB: Ive heard about that skating rink.  (all laugh)
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DH: It was quite nice; we spent a lot of time there as teenagers.
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CB: Okay, so how old were you when you married?
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DH: Twenty-three.
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CB: And how about you, your marriage?
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ER: Married in 1942, I think it was, and it didnt work outhe was later killed in a motorcycle accident.  And then in 1956 I was married and we had one son.  We were married for eleven years and then he had a heart attack.  And then in 1983 I married my last husband and he had a heart attack.
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CB: Did you stay in the Springs all that time that you were married?
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ER: Except the first marriagelived in Michigan for maybe two years.
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CB: Okay.  And it was your sonthen did your son grow up in the Springs, too?
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ER: Yes, but he didnt go to Sulphur Springs School.  He went to (inaudible) and then to whats the name of that other school?
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DH: Buchanan?
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ER: Buchanan and then Hillsborough High School.  He went to Hillsborough High School, also, so that was nice.
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CB: Oh, Ill bet.  Now you both said you were born here.  Where did your familiesare they native Floridians?  Did they come here from somewhere else?  What?
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ER: My mother was born in Ohio, and she came down with her aunt and uncle when her mother died.  My dad was fromhe was born in Alabama.
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CB: And what brought him to the Springsis that where they met, was here?
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ER: Yeah.  I think he decided he might make a better living down here; he had an uncle living down here already.  And this was about 1922, I think.  He always liked to tell this story that my mother came all the way from Ohio just to meet him.
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CB: Thats sweet.  Thats wonderful.  And what about yours?
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DH: Well, my dad is from New York State and he was in the Merchant Marine in the First World War, and the ships would come in and out of Tampa and thats how he met my mother.  She was born in Lake Mary, Florida, which is near Daytona Beach.  My grandmother was trying to raise four children all by herself before the aunt here in Tampa took two children, and so her mother was living with her aunt and met my dad.
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CB: So youre half native Floridian.
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DH: Im half Yankee, half Southern. (all laugh)
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CB: Now how manythere are two in your family, just you and
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ER: Three.  Two brothers.
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CB: And the other brother, is he living?
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ER: Hes in California.
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CB: Okay.
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ER: He was born in 1930.
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CB: Okay.  And how many in your family?
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DH: Just one.
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CB: Just you?  Okay.  And what did your parents do for a living?  I knew you said in the beginning, but
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DH: My dad was a meat cutter.  I think first he worked downtown in what was called City Market in the produce department, and then he worked for this little neighborhood grocery store close to Sulphur Springs School on Twelfth Street Franks IGA market.  He was the meat cutter, but he did other things there, too, and it was run by Mr. and Mrs. Frank.  After Mr. Frank died, Mrs. Frank continued on, and Daddy, and then I think they had one other regular, and then on weekends theyd hire someone else, a young person to help with things that needed to be done.
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CB: Did your mother work outside the home?
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DH: Not until we were grown.  Actually, she substituted at Sulphur Springs School during the war.  And then she worked at Maas Brothers in the Colgate toy department.
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CB: Okay, and what about your parents?
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ER: My dad owned and operated a filling station, and he was a car mechanic and he had the garage there.
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CB: And where was the
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ER: On Fowler and Nebraska.
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CB: Okay.
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ER: (inaudible) and my motherand, well, we lived in the back.  She was out there pumping gas and tending the cash register (inaudible) books part of it.  And then my grandmother livedher mother lived with us a lot of the time.  She wasMcDonalds (inaudible).
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CB: Wow.  You pretty much have told me you lived for a short time in Michigan and a very short time in South Carolinadid I get that right? Have you lived anywhere besides Sulphur Springs?
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DH: No.
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CB: Not at any time?  All right.  Now I want you to tell me about your first home in Sulphur Springs and how you came by it.  Now, that can be the first home you remember as a child, or preferably the first home as a married woman.
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DH: Our first home(cell phone rings) my dad, at one point during the last part of World War II, he went to work for the shipyard because, you know, Dads rationing and everything, it was really hard.  So then they moved down into the Springs and settled on Brooks Street.  And then we found this home after we marriedthis little house (inaudible) on March Street.
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CB: So tell me what it was like.  What was the house like?
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DH: It was a little square little house, had not been finished on the inside.  We had no baseboards, no cupboards, no doors to the closets.  And the people that owned itthey came down during the winter and its just like a winter place for them.  But anyway, we got itit was real, real reasonable.  I think we paid $3,800 for that and the fifty-foot lot.
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CB: How many rooms?
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DH: Well, it hadlet me see, a living room, a dining room and kitchen combined, two bedrooms, and a bathroom.  But it was wonderful because we lived in a little apartment upstairs at the garage, so this was great.
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CB: This was huge, wasnt it?
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DH: This was huge.
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CB: Is that where you had your babies?
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DH: Yes.
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CB: Brought your babies home to?  And did you guys go ahead and finish up the inside interior?
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DH: Yes, yes, we did, we put in cupboards and
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CB: How long did you live there?
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DH: Thirty-five years.
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CB: Oh, wow.  And what about your first homewhichever first home youd like to tell me about.
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ER: When we came back from South Carolina, I dont know how long it was, but Mama and Daddy bought this little house about four or five blocks from where my grandmother livedthis was on (inaudible).  It was a small house too: it had two bedrooms, a living room, a dining room, which had arches dividing it at one time, but I guess Daddy took em down because it made one rectangular shape out of (inaudible) afterwards.  The kitchen was very small; my mother said she had room enough to go in there, turn around, and walk out.  Later onthere was room for a bathroom, but it had no fixtures in it.  And later on we did get bath fixtures, and Daddy built a sleeping porch on the back that helpedanother bedroom.
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CB: Right.  Right.
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ER: And after that, lived on Elm Street when my second husband and I were married. Thats where my(inaudible) lived with us when my husband died.  From there, well then, my last husband, we lived on Tampa Street, and from there we bought this house.
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DH: You might mention that he was a minister.
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ER: Yeah, my last husbands a minister.
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CB: Oh!  Of the church there in Sulphur Springs?
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ER: United MethodistCalvary.
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CB: In Sulphur Springs?
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ER: On Waters Avenue, across from the dog track.  We were there first, so we always said the dog track was across from us.
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CB: Oh, how wondernow, see, this is why it helps to have two different people.  (laughs)  So tell me about him being a minister there.
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ER: We actually didnt get married until after he retired, so like I tell people, I missed all the good stuff.
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CB: (laughs) Okay.  So, whats the most special memories youve had about any of the places youve lived?  When someone mentions that house, what does your mind go back to?
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DH: Well, I have some in March Street, because thats where our son grew up.  We just had a lot of memoriesmy mom and dad and Oscars mother and dad, everybody that you know, and everybody was living and coming there.  It was just a very special place.
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CB: And you?
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ER: I think about our house when we were children(inaudible) we were there for the biggest part of our young lives.  And I remember playing in the backyard.  We had no grass, no trees.  Daddy planted the four chinaberry trees; he thought theyd grow fast and give us a little shade.
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CB: Did they?
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ER: When they got big enough, we were finally allowed to climb em.
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CB: Whats the main area of Sulphur Springs you remember?  Over the yearsI know everyone talks about the Arcade.
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ER: I was just gonna say that.
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CB: Okay.  Did you have a lot of experience at the Arcade? Was this a big part of your life?
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ER: Thats where everything was.  The post office, the sheriffs office
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DH: The dime store [Maves]
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ER: two drugstores.
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DH: The doctorseverything was there.
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CB: You went there for everything.
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DH: Everything.  Grocery storesand there were grocery stores across the street from the Arcade, also.
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CB: Well, what age were you allowed to go there by yourself?
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DH: I dont know, I wasnt about to go by myself. (laughs)
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CB: Oh.
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DH: I was real, real shy.  There was aEmma, what was the name of that man who had that vegetable stand?  Not right across from your grandmothers, but
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ER: Smithys.
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DH: Smithys, yeah.  And I know Mama would stop there sometime and get vegetables, not too often. I dont know how thats stuck in my mind.  Of course everybody had gardens then, too, you know, for vegetables and that.  I remember Oscars mom and Emmas mom saying thatcause he was a meat cutter, so whatever the store left Saturday night, you know, he would bring back home, which was reasonable during the Depression.  So they had meat occasionally.  We had chickens and Daddy would find a woods pig [wild boar] and raise that, and the neighbors behind had a cow, so we bartered.
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CB: Explain to me this find a woods pig and raise it.
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DH: Well, I had a cousin who did a lot of traveling; he drove a truck.  And you know, going through there was nothing but woods between here and wherever, and youd see thesethey didnt belong to anybody.  They were just a woods pig.  You just had to bring them home and clean him up and
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CB: And then raise him till you fatten him out
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DH: Raise him till you fatten him out.
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CB: For goodness sakes.  One of my questions was how the Depression impacted you?
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DH: Well, I remember it, dont you?
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ER: Very well.
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DH: Yeah.
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ER: Another thing you wanted to bring up was the Arcade.  We alsothat was the end of the streetcar line.  The car barn was there and we had to walk down to the Springs to get the streetcar.  Later on the buses came in; we could catch it at the corner of Seward and Nebraska.  But
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CB: So whered you take the streetcar to?
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ER: Hmm?
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CB: Where did you take the streetcar to?
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ER: Oh, downtown.
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CB: Downtown
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ER: That was the only place to go
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CB: Tampa?
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ER: Downtown Tampa, mm-hm.  If you wanted to go to a department store
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CB: Okay
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DH: The movies
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ER: Department stores.
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DH: They had a movie in the Springs but (inaudible).
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CB: So there wasntprimarily, there was not a lot of personal car use?  You didnt use your car?
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DH: Well, of course, my dad had a garage.  So we had a car, which I think folks thought we were really wealthy cause we had a car, cause most people did a lot of walking.
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ER: We didnt have a car.  Not until, I guess, I was in high school.  My uncle died and my aunt told Daddy got a car to take her where she needed to, to the doctor or whatever.
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CB: Oh, my goodness.
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ER: So, if you couldnt walk it, if there wasnt a streetcar going that way, you stayed home.
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CB: Okay, sounds perfect.  And when did the buses come in, do you remember?
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ER: I dont remember.
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DH: We didnt have a bus out there that went from the Springs out there untilmaybe Second World War.
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CB: Wow.
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DH: Maybe sometime in there.  And as it was, it was a pretty junky rattley type thing, but ityou know, it got you there.  So, thats
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ER: Our buses drove from the Springs [to] downtown were good.
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DH: They were like a HARTwell, like a HARTlinesmall.
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CB: Right.  So transportation was very much an issue in the beginning years.
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DH: Uh-huh.
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CB: Okay.  What stores do you particularly remember in Sulphur Springs, besides oneyou know, the garage and grocery storewhat other stores do you remember?
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DH: What was it, Emma, they have a
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ER: There was an A&P.
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DH: A&P, yeah.
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ER: Right in the middle of the Springs; it was on the left side.  On the (inaudible) there was a table supply, and later on, I think in the same old fashion, it was (inaudible).  It had a couple different names, but it wound up being Winn-Dixie.
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DH: It wasnt a Piggly Wiggly back then, was it?
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ER: I dont think so; at least, I dont remember it.
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CB: What other kinds of businesses, besides those kinds of stores?
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DH: Well, like I said, there was the post office, the doctors, the sheriff, there was a lawyer.  There was that five and dime, Maves Five and Dime store.
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ER: What did (inaudible) carry, was it material?
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DH: Materials and, well, that sort of thing.  But I remember Mavesand there was a Swans.  Which was alike a dry goods place, there was a Coopers
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ER: Oh, yes.
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DH: Across from
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ER: Coopers was right across from my grandmothers.
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00:20:4.6
DH: And
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CB: What was Coopers?
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DH: It waswell, shoes, dresses, and thread and things like that.  Just the nicest couplebut anyway
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ER: Theres a barbershop right next door to it.
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DH: Yes.  EverythingI mean, except maybe a department store, like youd go to Tampa for Maas, [W.T.] Grants, Kresss.
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CB: But it was all right there in the Arcade?
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ER: All except the bank.  Later on the bank came.  I remember my mother get on the streetcar and make house payment every month.
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CB: Is that right?
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DH: Citizenwasnt it Citizens Bank and during the Depression I think (inaudible).
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ER: But on the other side of the street was where the grocery stores were, and then there was a beauty parlor and a movie theater.  We just had it all.
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CB: You really did.  Somebody said something about an outdoor theater one time?
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ER: Yes.
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DH: Uh, yeah.  They did have an outdoor theater one time.  Yes, Id forgotten all about that.
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CB: And then the skating rink you mentioned.
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DH: Skating rink.
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CB: Was there, like, a bowling alley?
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DH: No.  And of course they had the swimming poolyou could always swim in.
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ER: If you take picnics, you could go along the little area and have your picnics.
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DH: Yeah.
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CB: And were there a lot of church activities? Was that a big part of that area, in other words?
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ER: Yeah, there was.
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DH: Yeah.  They werethe church I went to was (inaudible).  I guess her dad and her aunt were charter members of that Calvary
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ER: Who was?
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DH: Your dad and Aunt Norma.
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ER: Yes, they were.  Daddy was the last living charter member.
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CB: Oh.
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ER: Mm-hm.  It originally was called Sarah Spencer Methodist, but later on the name was changed to Calvary.  We moved from one corner of the block to the other corner.
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CB: Oh, for heavens sakes.
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DH: Her husband was responsible for getting them the new building, which they needed desperately.
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CB: Okay, my curiosity is too muchSarah Spencer?  Was this a person?
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ER: Yes, there was a Colonel Spencer, and it seems he gaveIm not sure the amount; it might have been $50, Im not sure.  But he wanted it named in memory of his mother.
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CB: Oh, okay.
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ER: There also was a Spencer Memorial Baptist in Seminole Heights, and it was the same Colonel Spencer that I guess helped them, too.  But theyre all calledI think its Tampa Bay Baptist now.
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CB: Thats the first time Ive heard of a church named after a person, [which] is why I was curious as to how it came about.  Now I already know you have long term acquaintances or friends still living in Sulphur Springs, but what Im going after is, how much do you keep up with them?  You know, how much do you interact with those people, to themlike phone, see them at different locations?
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ER: Some of them.  Some of us were related.  Some cousins that weve kept in touch with and they go to the reunions.
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CB: Who was your childhood buddy?  Did you have one?
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ER: Yeah, she died.  When my last husband and I got married, she died shortly after that.  Her name was (inaudible).  But some of the people that we went to school withwe graduated together from Sulphur Springs School and went on to Hillsborough High.
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CB: And you still keep up with them?  Their family lives?
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ER: Some of them.  I mean, you dont make real close friends, very many.  But the ones that you do you stay close for many years.
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CB: Okay, and how bout you?
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DH: Well, my, I guess, closest friend I went to school withwell, I have two of them, actually.  From elementary through junior high (inaudible) Dolores (inaudible) is her name and she was (inaudible) and Hazel (inaudible) Ruth. And she lives not too far from here.  And yeah, we call each other and Dolores and I occasionally call each other.  She just lost her husband Max several months ago.  So we keep up much and still have neighbors that still live here in thisor they were neighbors of ours.  And they come up to the house or we go down there and visit them.
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CB: So there is definitely some connections and threads all the way to today.
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DH: Oh, yeah.
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CB: I want you to tell me what the school was like when you went and what a typical school day was like.
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DH: Well, the elementary part of school was wooden buildingslong, narrow, wooden buildingsand then in the center of that was a brick.  That was thewhat would be the second school, and they still use that today for the elementary group.
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ER: The little brick building I think they done away with.  That was the first grade.
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DH: Right.  Emma and Oscar and I were all in the first grade in that building, and Oscars aunt was one of the teachers of there, Mrs. Norma Hood.  I have ahad an unclethere was a wooden building that was right where that brick building was built and I guesshe was one of theeither the first or the second principal at Sulphur Springs School way back when.  And this is (inaudible) the Second World War, they came through and wanted to know, you know, how we can do with all these kids in a junior high area  if they had some kind of tragic thing happen and they would have to know where the water, the wellthere was a well there.  So I had written my uncle and he told us where the well had been, you know, in case they had to do something about that.
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But anyway, they had these windows and then there was a lunchroom one end.  Then when you graduated to junior high, they had a big red brick building with an auditorium and you got to go to the big building, which was a very scary (all laugh) very, very scary thing, to go to the sixth grade or that big building over there.  But that wasit was kept up nice, but in todays termscourse, they tore all that out cause it had just deteriorated.
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ER:  Remember the rooms always inthe little brick building, we called it, that was first grade, had four rooms in it.  Then there was the wooden buildingthat was my second and third grade and the lunchroom.  Then when we went to the big buildingthats what it was called, the little building and the big building.
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CB: Is that right?
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ER: And the big building had a second floor.  When we went back many years later, it wasnt near as big as it was when we were there.
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DH: I know the principal (inaudible) soon as you went in the front door to the left of the principals office and to the right was the
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ER: Teachers lounge.
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DH: Yes.  And people who would be sent to the principals office, you just went (inaudible) you just sort of skirted around. (all laugh)
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CB: So was lunch served in the lunchroom prepared or did you bring it from home?
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ER: Both. We prepared many sandwiches.  And we bought (inaudible) we had a nickel plate and a dime plate.
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CB: Oh, really?
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ER: If I had a nickel, Id getit was a metal plate, a tin plate, and youd have a big serving of pork and beans and a slice of bread.  But if you had a dime plate, you got some vegetables.
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CB: Is thatno meat?
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ER: Well, I remember they had Cuban sandwiches.  I dont think I ever got one.
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DH: (inaudible)
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ER: Cuban sandwiches.  And they had little ice cream cups.
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CB: Oh, my goodness.  What about milk?
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ER: Maybe a nickel.  Im not sure.
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DH: I can rememberthey had the best tomato and lettuce sandwiches, and you takeif you were really flushed with money, youd buy a bag of potato chips and put that in your sandwich.  Then you halved it, and then somebody else could have half and you could have half.
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CB: All right, youve gotta tell me how to make this concoction.  Did it have mayo or mustard or white bread?
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DH: I dontwell, it was white bread, but I dont remember mayo or anything.
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CB: Just lettuce and tomato?
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DH: Yeah, and then you put potato chips on it.
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CB: Thats wonderful, sounds wonderful!  I rememberthe things I remember from grade school are the little great cartons of milk.  You know, at home you hadbut at grade school you had these little cartons of milk.
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DH: Cartons of milk.
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CB: So did you have chocolate milk?
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DH: I dont remember having chocolate milk.
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CB: Only white milk.
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DH: I dont remember.
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CB: So tell me about a typical day, first in grade school and then in the scary big building. (laughs) What was itwhat was a school day like?  What time did it start, do you remember?
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ER: Eight oclock, wasnt it?
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DH: I thinkI know I had to catch the bus, cause I was way out in the country, and I think we had to catch the bus something like at seven and then it would go up into Temple Terrace and up into Lutz, back and around, and only the east side of Nebraska because the other side was for another school.  So that was a long ride.  And then at nightonce in a great while my mother would come pick me up so I could get home earlier because school was out atthree?
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ER: Sounds about right.
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DH: And by the time I went home it was 4:30 (inaudible), and in the wintertime it got right cold.  I remember my dad, he got a big old drum, he lit a fire, and everybody gathered there, cause it was a garage fill-up station, and everybody gathered there and (inaudible).
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CB: Oh, my goodness.
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DH: (inaudible)
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CB: So did you walk to school?
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ER: Oh, yes, my mother really taught us never to be late going anywhere.  I dont know what time I left home, but it was plenty of time and Id go to my grandmothers houseit was on Nebraskaand she would help me cross that busy Nebraska Avenue.  Id go in crying, Am I going to be late? No, sister, youve got plenty of time. So shed help me walk across the street and then I would hurry and get on to school, and Im sure I was the first one to school every day.
252
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CB: Oh, for goodness sakes, oh my goodness.  So, in grade school, this was the building where you only had like four little rooms?
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ER: And a big hallway, and theres a piano right in the hallway.
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CB: And do you remember anything at all about how the day went?
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ER: I remember spelling words that we had one time.  The teacher had them on the board, and I think we had to learnmaybe we had to write a letter to our mother, Dear Mother, Id like to go to school.  And she had, like, a window shade covering up the words on the blackboard and she peeked behind the shade to tell us the next word, and I remember crying one time, I cant spell Mother.
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CB: Oh, my goodness.  So what all did you learn in grade school?
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ER: I dont remember.  I knowI have a picture of me, a little tiny picture with a book in front of me, and I guess the photographer came and took everybodys pictureset up one desk.  And in the third grade I had pneumonia and I missed a whole report period and I just knew I was going to fail, but I didnt.  Thats when I got my first D.
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CB: (laughs) In those young minds, we cant understand it wasnt our fault.  We think we were just really not good.
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ER: My fifth grade teacher, every Halloween she would dress up in a black cape and a long pointed black hat and go around and visit each of the classes.
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DH: And that was Halloween.
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ER: That was Halloween.  I remember
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DH: I dont ever remember going trickin or treating.  I dont remember that.
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CB: Is that right?
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ER: No, I remember I wentOscar and I would go over to an aunts house, who lived a few blocks from us, and we might be able to afford a new mask every year.  And that was it, when we were kids.
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CB: So you didnt do parties or anything?
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ER: Not till we were older.
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DH: Yeah, when we were older, I remember the church would have a party, and wed bob for apples and have, you know, games and everything, and maybe you could find something you could dress up, whatever.
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ER: Church was the main place to go for meetings and parties: get-togethers of any kind.
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CB: So most of the holidays were probably also centered around the church?
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DH: Yeah. Yeah, they were.
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CB: So what was it like going to the big scary building?  What was a day there like?
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DH: Busy, cause we changed classes, which we hadnt been used to.
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ER: We didnt start changing classes till about the sixth grade, sixth or seventh grade.
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DH: Well, thats what Im saying.  We went to the big building and changed classes and
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ER: I remember starting in the big building.  I was in fourth grade.
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DH: Oh, did you?
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ER: Mm-hm.  I thinkcourse, I was a little ahead of you.
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DH: Yeah.
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ER: I think it was about the sixth gradeit could have been the seventh gradewe started changing classes.
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CB: Does that mean you had different teachers, also, for different subjects?
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ER: Mm-hm.
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DH: Yeah, wed go to different rooms in the school.
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ER: And we had good teachers.
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CB: Did ya?
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ER: We really did.  When we went to Hillsborough, some of the kids didnt understand what the English teacher was talking about; we knew all about it cause we had such a good English teacher.
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CB: Wow.
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DH: We really did, we were really
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ER: Just because we lived in the Springs didnt mean we didnt have good teachers at all.
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DH: And you know, I can remember Oscars aunt saying that every morning when she got up.  She fixed I dont know how many lunchesthere was such poverty back thenand she would take lunches every day to school.
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ER: Did you know what she fixed?
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DH: Well, it was
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ER: I asked her one time and she getsshed fix these dried apples, or peaches, and cook them and make sandwiches.
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CB: Apple sandwiches?
294
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ER: Apple or peaches.
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DH: Looks like jelly.
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CB: Right, right.  Oh, for goodness sakes.  But they had something to eat.
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ER: Thats right.  And I said a lot of kids (inaudible) that were fed by her.
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CB: Thats amazing.
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DH: They talk about poverty (inaudible)
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ER: Wed always save our bags to take the next day, but a lot of children, they had their sandwiches wrapped up in newspaper with a rubber band around it or a string tied around it.
301
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CB: Is that right?
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DH: Even when we went to high school, I can remember we thought kids from the Latin quarter were very fortunate because Cuban sandwichthe Cuban sandwiches then, theyd start out with meat and vegetables and work on down to the dessert, in their sandwiches, and we just thought that was the most marvelous thing we ever seen.  Not that we starvedI personally (inaudible) starved, but there were some people that were in really, really bad shape, really.  But, like she said, we had good teachers, dedicated teachers, teachers that would take up the time with those who were in a problem.  When we got to high school, it wasnt bad at all.  Thought it was gonna be.
303
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CB: Right.
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DH: But it wasnt.
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CB: So you feel like you got a really good education?
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DH: Oh, yes.  We had one of the best math teachers in our school, cause I wasI didnt like math.  I didnt want any part of it.  But she explained it.  And as far as keeping orderno problem, she never had a problem with keeping order.  But she did it in such a jovial way
307
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ER: Was that Mrs. (inaudible)?
308
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DH: Mrs. (inaudible), yeah, and she taught those people math.  They maybe didnt want to learn it, but she taught it to them anyway.
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ER: In the ninth grade our principal, the same one that warned us against marijuana
310
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CB: Right.
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ER: This is Mr. Bates, and he was our teacher in algebra class.
312
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CB: Is that right?
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ER: And hed let us go to the board so we didnt have to use paper, waste paper.  And wed do our problem at the board; hed come by and check it, erase it, and go on to the next one.
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CB: Oh, for goodness sakes.
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DH: He was a one-armed person.  Hes lost that arm
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ER: Hed go out and throw it and boys would try to chase it.
317
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DH: Teach em how to play baseball.  Teach the girls basketball (inaudible).
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CB: My dad did the same thing to me after my children got into school.  He says, You know, your kids didnt get the same education you got.  You got their education.  And he felt like heeven though he had stopped, you know, to go off to war, he felt like he had a better education than I had.  Is that what you would see from over the years?
319
00:40:15.9
DH: I do.
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CB: Do you feel like the years you spent
321
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DH: And I dont know why, cause so many of the teachers now, they spend at least 70 percent of the time keeping order.  Now, I dont know, because there was some pretty rough kids
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ER: Our teachers, we had respect for them.
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DH: Oh, yeah.  Oh, yeah.  The first grade, we started out with that.
324
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CB: Thats where you began
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DH: And they deserved the respect.  You never heard anything really bad about them at all, and they lived for their kids.  They really did.
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CB: You had to want to be a teacher.
327
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DH: Yeah.
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ER: My aunt did.
329
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DH: Oh, she sure did.
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ER: My aunt loved children, and she justwell, for example, I would sometimes ride with her, maybe from church or maybe from my houseshe had a carand wed ride down to Victoria Springs; she lived [on] just the other side of the river.  And wed pass someone, and shed always speak, Hello.  Now thats so-and-so and I had him in such-and-such a grade, and his birthday is such-and-such a date.
331
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DH: Hes related to this cousin, and such and such.  And shed kept it all of that straight; I dont know how she did.  And sheright up to the very end she could just remember all everything: whos related to who through whoI dont know.  (all laugh)
332
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CB: So was this respect for the teacher taught in school, taught at home?  Why do you think you respected these teachers right off the bat?
333
00:42:15.3
ER: We were taught to.
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DH: But we liked them.
335
00:42:20.2
ER: We respected our parents, in the first place.
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CB: Okay.
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00:42:23.4
DH: Oh, yeah.
338
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ER: And if we ever got bad grades in school, we could look for a tongue lashing when we got home, or something.
339
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CB: Right.
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ER: I know Daddy used to tell us, You might not make the best grades in some of your subjects, but there is no excuse for you not to have a good grade in deportment, as it was called in those days.
341
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CB: Oh, and what is deportment?
342
00:42:49.2
ER: Deportment.
343
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DH: Well, thats how you behave yourself.
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CB: (inaudible) okay.  So you actually were graded in your behavior.
345
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ER: Yes.
346
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CB: So what I remember my children having a section called citizenshipis that what (inaudible)?
347
00:43:6.1
ER: That could possibly be the same.
348
00:43:7.7
CB: Okay, just what kind of person youre going to end up being.
349
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ER: Whether you listen to the teacher or misbehaved in class, you got graded on it.
350
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DH: Oh, I know.  Even our son, when he was youngerwell, I guess when he joined fourth grade, sometimes boys get a little carried away at that age, which would be ten, nine, somewhere in there.  And the first day the teacher asked him something, and he said, Well, yeah.  He was kept in after school because he did not say, Yes, sir, or No, sir.  I mean, thats the way (inaudible) school, and it just crushed him.  He said Yes, sir or maam from then on. (laughs) You know, its just little things like that.
351
00:44:7.3
CB: Well, the difference is you obviously backed up the teacher.
352
00:44:11.2
DH: Well, of course.  Sure.
353
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ER: Certainly.
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CB: Okay, lets move on to: do either of you remember the train depot?
355
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DH: The train depot, the downtown train depot? You mean?
356
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CB: Ive just beenperiodically I hear people say, Theres never been a train depot, and then Ive had other people say, Yes there was a train depot.
357
00:44:33.6
DH: There is a train depot downtown.
358
00:44:36.1
ER: Downtown.
359
00:44:36.9
DH: Are they talking about the car barn?
360
00:44:40.4
ER: On Twelfth Street, was it?
361
00:44:42.3
DH: I dont remember the train depot.
362
00:44:48.5
ER: I dont remember people getting on it.  Mainly for freight; I shipped oranges.
363
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DH: Oh!  Yeah.  There in Sulphur Springs, there was a little wooden bedyeah, I used to take fruit up there and ship itearly, frosty, cold mornings. (all laugh) Fruit.  But that was when our son was just a baby, so that would be 1950s.  But other than that, I never went up there.
364
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ER: And I neverI might see it from the street.
365
00:45:18.6
DH: In fact, that building is still standing in Heritage Park.
366
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CB: Right.
367
00:45:24.5
DH: Thats the one youre talking about, right?
368
00:45:26.2
CB: Exactly.  Exactly.
369
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DH: Cause I remember we went over there a long time ago, turned the corner, and I thought (gasps) theres myI found it.
370
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CB: Now, what were you doing shipping fruit early in the morning?
371
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DH: Well, we had a bunch of fruit trees, and my mother had an aunt who lived up north and so we wouldat Christmas time, we would pack fruit, you know, and send it up there, ship it up.
372
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CB: Uh-huh.  Well, tell me about the car barn.  I heard that.
373
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DH: Well, yeah, we all knew about the car barn.
374
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ER: That was the end of the streetcar line.
375
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DH: Yeah.
376
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ER: In the Springs.  Right near the Arcade building.
377
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CB: Okay.  Okay.
378
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ER: It was a big old barn.
379
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CB: Yeah.  Okay.  Is that where they turned the streetcar around?
380
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ER: They didnt turn the streetcar around; they just put the money holder from one end to the other and theyd go through and flip the seats back in the opposite direction.
381
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CB: Oh.  Oh, for goodness sakes.
382
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ER: And then put this trolley thing up on the wire from one end to the other.
383
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CB: So itd go the other direction?
384
00:46:37.4
ER: Mm-hm.
385
00:46:38.3
ER: How often did the trolley come?
386
00:46:41.0
ER: I can remember when it was all woods.
387
00:46:44.6
CB: The dog track?
388
00:46:45.4
ER: Mm-hm.  Completely.  We had a littlewell, I guess the car had made ruts going from Waters Avenue to the Springs.  And wed walk through that road and around and around this way.  And I can just remember when they started putting up the fence, and my mother would take us down to the swimming pool during the summer and we would have our bathing suits on with our clothes on top of the suits.  Wed get to the end of the fence, shed say, All right, you can go ahead and take off your outside clothes now.  And youd be all ready to get in the water.
389
00:47:24.5
CB: Oh, my goodness.  Well, why did we get a dog track?  I mean, its not a challenge.  I mean
390
00:47:31.1
DH: I dont know.  I dont know much about it, but I know everyone seemed to be upset about it.  But nothing was ever
391
00:47:41.1
ER: And for a long timeI dont know if you would remember it, but there was one oak tree left on that parking lot close to Nebraska and Waters, and they said that was where they held our first church service.
392
00:47:56.8
CB: Is that right?
393
00:47:58.3
ER: They left it there for many, many years, but they finally took it down.
394
00:48:1.5
CB: Oh, for goodness sakes.  So did the dog track bring in a lot of outsiders?
395
00:48:8.2
DH: Oh, yeah.
396
00:48:9.5
CB: Did that begin to change the
397
00:48:11.3
DH: Well, I dont know if that they lived in the Springs, but there were still a lot of outsiders for the duration that it was open; they would be in motels or whatever.
398
00:48:23.5
CB: Did that make a difference in how Sulphur Springs felt at that time?  You know, how they talk about when the tourists come to town, so to speak.
399
00:48:30.8
DH: Yeah, well, we had that tourist (inaudible) and they hadwhatd they call the trailers?  Tin can trailers and everything.  So, I guess they were kinda accustomed to having people come in, you know, so I dont know that the dog track made that big of a difference.  Then the dog track tried to buy the property where the church
400
00:48:55.4
ER: They wanted to try to buy the church property for many years, and kept telling them no.
401
00:48:58.9
DH: And they just fought it and fought it and fought it.  I said, The dog tracks about done, that church is still standing there going.  (all laugh)
402
00:49:8.9
CB: Guess we know who had a little more clout on their side.  SoI know this next one is a really painful question.  Tell me about when we lost the Arcade.
403
00:49:25.0
DH: Oh.
404
00:49:26.8
ER: It made everybody sick.
405
00:49:29.4
DH: It really did.  It really did.  I know (inaudible) and it needed repair, but it could have been repaired, I think.  I dont know.  We didnt fight hard enough?  Long enough?  Strong enough?  I dont know.
406
00:49:49.0
CB: Did you maybe not know enough about it early enough?
407
00:49:51.8
DH: Well, that, too.  Yeah, that, too.  But it really did come down, down.
408
00:50:2.1
CB: Do you feel like it actually affected the community, the people?  What impact do you think losing the Arcade had on the Sulphur Springs that you had known up to that point?
409
00:50:14.7
ER: Completely changed.  We could go down there for anything.  Now you hadwell, we could go downtown, but now you cant even go downtown; you have to select a mall to go shopping.
410
00:50:30.4
DH: Well, it was really like our mall.
411
00:50:32.9
ER: Yeah, it really was.
412
00:50:34.6
DH: If you think about it, cause everything was there.
413
00:50:38.5
ER: Right.  Had a big fountain right in the centerwas real pretty.  And the post office was right in there.  I remember I could just barely see over the top to ask for stamps.
414
00:50:50.1
DH: Yeah, and the drugstores with the big ol (inaudible) most of the people who were just really nice folks.
415
00:51:2.4
ER: Oh, did you tell her theres a bakery there, too?
416
00:51:6.5
DH: Thats right.  I forgot about that.
417
00:51:9.1
CB: Oh, really?  Oh, the smell is wonderful.
418
00:51:11.6
ER: It really is.
419
00:51:12.9
CB: Tell me about the second floor of the Arcade.
420
00:51:14.4
DH: I was only up there one time.
421
00:51:17.0
ER: I was never up there.
422
00:51:18.2
DH: I had a cousin that lived there just for a little while.  It was nice.  And I suspect when it was first built it really was nice.  It went up and then sort of a big roomchairs and stuffand then you would go down to different apartments, and I suspect they had certain porches out.  At one point, toward the end, I suspect it was quite noisy, cause the traffic was getting more and morein its day, it really was beautiful.
423
00:51:55.2
CB: You think there was any real budding romances that formed around the Arcade?
424
00:52:0.2
DH: Oh, I dont know
425
00:52:2.1
CB: I heard about the skating rink.
426
00:52:4.2
DH: Yeah.
427
00:52:4.9
CB: And Im guessing maybe the movie houses.
428
00:52:6.6
ER: I suppose, cause a lot of the kids worked in the drugstore, you know, doing the sodas and what have you.  The girls would go in because the guys (all laugh) that sort of thing.  So I suppose, yeah.
429
00:52:22.2
CB: Had you ever been to the tourist club?
430
00:52:25.3
DH: Not as awell, yeah, tourist club, during World War II.  They had dances up there, and of course the mothers would go and check in, cause I dont know, I guess I was sixteen or so.  I werent allowed to date till I was sixteen.  But anyway, the mothers would go up there and you know, and go to the skating rink, really.  They would have the servicemen come in.  They would have a dance, a U.S.O. type thing, with refreshments.
431
00:53:7.0
ER: Our choir sang there a time or two, and we hadI guess what, twenty-five or thirty at one time.  Something really exciting about being in the tourist club.
432
00:53:22.4
DH: Oh, yeah.
433
00:53:23.9
CB: So did you ever go up to that springs or get water, or did you go to the gazebo and get water?
434
00:53:31.1
DH: (inaudible)
435
00:53:34.1
ER: If you could smell it, you wouldnt want to drink it.
436
00:53:35.1
DH: See, that doesnt bother me.
437
00:53:38.6
ER: It smelled like rotten eggs.
438
00:53:42.2
CB: Well did anybody in your family tell you it was good for you or make you drink it?  No?  How bout you?
439
00:53:50.8
DH: Not really, no.
440
00:53:52.3
ER: Mom and Dad didnt like it either.
441
00:53:53.6
DH: No, my dad didnt like it.  I guess hed occasionally (inaudible).
442
00:54:2.5
CB: Well, when you went swimming, did it smell like that, too, over at the swimming pool?
443
00:54:5.7
DH: Uh-uh.
444
00:54:6.3
ER: It was fresh water.  It was fresh water.
445
00:54:8.7
DH: Well, it was sulfur water, but it wasnt strong.  It wasnt strong at all.
446
00:54:14.5
ER: Well, with our water hook up we didnt get any sulfur taste.
447
00:54:17.4
DH: No, you didnt.  So thats why I said when you went swimming there (inaudible) a lot of people they say lived in the Arcadewould go there for help(inaudible) water good for arthritis.
448
00:54:31.9
ER: So much good.
449
00:54:33.3
CB: It wasnt the sulfur, it was the
450
00:54:36.0
DH: I dont know that they ever said sulfur, butcause it was cold.  Really cold.
451
00:54:41.8
CB: Well, in Florida that would be a premium.
452
00:54:43.7
ER: Thats right.  Didnt it sayused to say 68 degrees?
453
00:54:47.4
DH: Something like that.
454
00:54:48.6
CB: Oh, wow.  Oh, wow.  Well, what memories do you have about the tower or the gazebo?  Any?
455
00:54:55.3
DH: Not really.
456
00:54:57.0
CB: Where the little river runs.
457
00:54:57.9
DH: Yeah.  I dont thinkwe went down to the gazebo a couple of different times; a group of us would go and look around.
458
00:55:7.8
ER: Sunday afternoons.
459
00:55:9.2
DH: Yeah.
460
00:55:10.0
ER: A lot of us would get together and then just take pictures.  Walk up and take pictures.
461
00:55:15.5
DH: In fact, we have a picture at the house now, of the water tower, that her brother took, and he really did a nice job.  And he framed it and sent it to us for a Christmas present.
462
00:55:31.8
CB: Oh, how wonderful.
463
00:55:39.0
CB: Okay, so what was your favorite food growing up?
464
00:55:43.4
DH: Hmm, I dont know.
465
00:55:47.2
ER: Favorite what?
466
00:55:48.0
CB: Food.  Whatd you like to eat?
467
00:55:50.1
DH: Anything.
468
00:55:50.7
ER: I still like pork and beans as much as I had em at school.
469
00:55:53.6
CB: (laughs) So you werent picky eaters?
470
00:55:57.9
ER: No.
471
00:55:58.8
CB: Werent allowed to be picky eaters, probably.
472
00:55:59.0
DH: No, you were lucky and youd get whatever.
473
00:56:3.1
ER: You better clean off your plate.
474
00:56:4.1
CB: Well, obviously was gonna say what was a special food in your family.  Im guessing yours was meat, since your dad was a meat cutter?  Are there any special foods or traditions regarding foods that you remember?
475
00:56:16.2
ER: We always wanted biscuits.  Mom had to get up and fix biscuits for breakfast and for supper.  She gave us a well-rounded diet.
476
00:56:28.7
DH: Yeah, she did say that she, at one point, got tired of lamb, because he would bring lamb bits and shed make lamb stew.  And when Oscar and I first married I loved lamb, and he said, Do we have to have this quite as often? (all laugh) Could you fix it?  It was just because they ate a lot of it.
477
00:56:56.0
ER: I remember mostly Sunday dinners; this would be lamb stew and green beans.
478
00:57:3.3
CB: Green beans from your garden?
479
00:57:5.5
ER: No, we didnt have much of a garden.  But you worked at the grocery stores.
480
00:57:12.0
CB: (inaudible)
481
00:57:13.7
ER: On Saturday wed sit around the dining table and wed snap beans or shell peas, one or the other.
482
00:57:19.7
CB: What about traditions?  In other words, during Christmas, during holidays, were there anything that was just traditionalyou were gonna have it at a particular time?
483
00:57:34.2
DH: Well, I think Thanksgiving and Christmas.  Wed always have a turkey, unless we didnt have it.  We had chicken, baked chicken, cause we had chicken.  A neighbor down the street, I rememberfor some years they were raising turkeys.  And so they would bring the turkey and then my mother and my grandmother and whomever else, you know, wed bring everything.  But we always had meat at Thanksgiving and Christmas.
484
00:58:8.0
ER: As we grew up in our familiesDots parents, my parents, my brothers in-lawswed eat at one house or the other for special occasions.  Christmas at one house, Thanksgiving somebody elses house, Fourth of July, Easter, any holidays we just got together and everybody would bring something.  It wasnt hard on anyone.
485
00:58:40.6
DH: That was one group of in-lawstheyd travel on trips and would go wherever things were gathered, which was really a wonderful thing as far as three kids were concerned.  It made for a really good collection amongst all of us.
486
00:59:4.3
CB: So you have anlarger family.
487
00:59:7.1
DH: Oh, well, it was wonderful because not all in-laws get along.
488
00:59:11.1
CB: This is true.  Tell me, do you remember how you learned to cook?
489
00:59:17.0
ER: With much difficulty.  I kept asking my mother, Why wont you let me cook when I come home from work?  Ill never learn how.  She said, Im just sitting here; might as well have it ready when you come home.  And so Id call her from work, Im gonna have squash for supper, how do I fix it?  So shed tell me over the phone what to do and Id go home and fix it.  I always said, If you can read, you can cook, and I had several cookbooks so
490
00:59:53.9
DH: Well, I dont know.  My motherwhen I was growing up, my grandmother lived with us, so I remember they taught me how to bake a chocolate cake and they taught me how to scramble an egg.  I mean, you know, different things like that.  So I knew that muchbut when we married and I had to learn after that.
491
01:00:27.1
ER: I would make candy maybe Sunday afternoons, chocolate fudge.  And then my mother had me bake a cake; we didnt have cake mixes.
492
01:00:38.3
DH: No.
493
01:00:38.6
ER: I mean, you cream and sugar and shortening and Id think, Is that enough? No, do it quite longer. So my second thing was cakes, and after that it waswhatever.
494
01:00:54.6
DH: You know the little (inaudible) eggbeater, yeah, and trying to make angel food cake.  It was so slow, you had to keep beating and beating and beat.  Now you have your hand mixer, you justno problem, butshe has a friend that does angel food cake.
495
01:01:19.9
ER: From scratch.
496
01:01:20.7
DH: From scratch.  And I always am so thrilled cause I know what kind of work goes in it.
497
01:01:26.4
CB: Maybe thats why the food tasted so much better back then, is
498
01:01:29.3
DH: You had to work.
499
01:01:30.6
CB: It was a talent.
500
01:01:31.4
DH: It really, you knowand like you said, you snapped your beans and you did the black-eyed peas, you did that and you didI mean, everything, vegetable or fruit wiseI mean, it was work.  You had to peel and chop and carry on.
501
01:01:48.0
CB: Well, now, did youwas everything fresh or did you can some things for seasons?
502
01:01:52.6
DH: Yeah.  Yeah.
503
01:01:53.4
CB: Cause you did put some effort canning.
504
01:01:55.3
DH: Yeah, we did.
505
01:01:56.0
CB: Did you work outside the home, either as a teenager or after you left your parents home?  And if so, what did you do?
506
01:02:4.8
ER: My first job was with the NYA
Part of the Works Progress Administration, the NYA employed high school and college aged individuals of both sexes.
, and it was at the Seminole American Legion, doing some typing, and the typewriter broke.  And the man who was in charge was also in charge of draft board number 4.
507
01:02:23.0
CB: Now, whats the NYA?
508
01:02:24.5
ER: National Youth Administration, I think it was.  Youth group.  It was just part-time.  And then when I started downworking in the office for the draft boardthat was also part-time, but I was there for a while.  Then I went over [in] the Hyde Park area for board 2I worked there for a while.  And then when I was in Michigan, I worked at General Motors in the office.
509
01:02:56.6
Came home and worked at (inaudible) meat packers, which is mostly answering the phone and taking orders.  And then I started working at the camera center where my brother Oscar worked for so many years.  And I thought when he got out of the service they wouldnt want me because a lot of places didnt want families, but he saidthe owner said, No, you can keep on working.  So I worked until just before my son was born.  And then when he was in the second or third grade, I knew I had to go back to work; my husbands health was not good.  And I finally got a job at SearsI worked there for twenty-three years.  That, too, was part-time; that was in the cashiers office.  Now Im retired and I volunteer at my church.
510
01:03:49.4
CB: All right.  And you?
511
01:03:51.1
DH: Let me see, graduated high school and went to business college for a year, then I went to work for a paper company; we sold paper for printers in the accounts receivable.  And thenlets see, where did I go from there?  I married and I didnt work for a while, then I went back to work for a whileoh, they did IRS forms and so forthworked there for a while.  I helped my husband.
512
01:04:33.3
ER: You were a chambermaid, too.
513
01:04:35.1
DH: Well, thats right, I went to chamber and I worked for peoplethis was someone who did not like me. (CB laughs) Good bookkeeper there for some years.  Then my mother and dad had passed away within just a few months of each other at some point, and so I had to give that job up for a while.  Then I helped my husband at the camera center, and then I went over to (inaudible)all these times was, like, accounts receivable.
514
01:05:7.0
CB: The lady who didnt like math.
515
01:05:9.2
DH: The lady who did not like math.  Thats why I tell youshe was a good teacher.  And then I worked for (inaudible) for a long, long time.
516
01:05:18.1
ER: She and Oscar both.
517
01:05:21.1
DH: Yeah, both of us.  And just retired last year.
518
01:05:26.6
CB: Is that right?
519
01:05:28.3
DH: Yeah, like she said, we volunteer at the church, and thats about it.
520
01:05:36.0
CB: So, did you have chores when you were growing up?  Specific chores when you were growing
521
01:05:41.1
DH: Oh, yes.
522
01:05:41.9
CB: What were they?
523
01:05:42.8
DH: Clean the dishes; being sure to push my chair back up under the table, cause there wasnt much room and you didnt leave the chair out; sweeping; and I had to make this bed that you slept on, but really you made up into a couch, so that had to be done every morning. Sometimes when I got older I could answer the phone (inaudible).
524
01:06:19.0
CB: Right.  What about you?
525
01:06:19.8
ER: I remember washing dishes and Oscar would have to dry emor he washed, then I would have to dry.
526
01:06:30.9
CB: Right.
527
01:06:31.4
ER: Id sweeplater on we got a rug and a used vacuum cleaner.  I slept on the couchI had to make that up, too.
528
01:06:40.2
DH: Yeah.
529
01:06:40.7
ER: Dustingit was not my favorite thing; it still isnt.
530
01:06:45.2
CB: Me too.
531
01:06:51.5
ER: I think that waswhatever my mother said to do, you did.
532
01:06:56.8
CB: Whats the biggest change you remember as a child or a teenager, you know, when you were a child, when you were a teenager, what happened that wasthat sticks in your mindbiggest changes?
533
01:07:11.2
DH: I guess (inaudible).  I always thought that when I got to be this age, I would know all the answers.  But I dont even know a lot of the questions anymore.  I just dont.  You know, you think youre gonna grow and kinda solve problems, but problems, are they deeper now, is this whyI dont know.
534
01:07:41.9
ER: I dont know.  Life is changing (inaudible).  Year to year you see changes.  I cant put my finger on any one thing.
535
01:07:52.8
DH: You know, too, when we were growing up, this area was our world.  Now it might be Pakistan or Australia.  I mean, it moves from all over the world and it gets to be (inaudible) its just overwhelming.
536
01:08:14.9
CB: Which brings me to another possibly painful or difficult position, and that was World War (inaudible)how you experienced it being in Sulphur Springs.  How was World War II (inaudible)?
537
01:08:32.0
DH: Well, where we lived, there was Henderson Field, behind the shopmuch where University Mall and Busch Gardens and all that.  And my dad was one of the wardens, and so if you wanted to recognize what kind of plane flew over and if you called and told him that such-and-such a plane was heading north and what the time was and so forth.  And two you had black somethingblack windows, so at night you just didnt view light.
538
01:09:11.7
ER: We didnt have a car, but the people who did had aoh, what was it, the top half of the lights black.
539
01:09:19.6
DH: Yeah.
540
01:09:20.6
ER: Or you only had half light.
541
01:09:22.5
DH: Right.  And then Daddy, like I say, selling gasoline, had all the rationing tickets or coupons, I guess, and we would go to get sugar and fatlard.
542
01:09:39.7
ER: You had to give em your ration stamps.
543
01:09:42.3
DH: Meat.
544
01:09:43.1
ER: For that
545
01:10:41.6
ER: And our daddy used to invite some of the fellas home for Sunday dinner and wed just go for walks.  Wed either go up to the dam in one direction, or we could walk in the other direction, just kinda follow the river and take pictures on the way.
546
01:10:59.2
DH: Long picnics, go swimming in the pool, or to the beach.  But I think we can say that none of us in that group was ever talked to badly or anything like that, ever.
547
01:11:22.4
ER: All the servicemen were
548
01:11:24.4
DH: They were just the nice
549
01:11:25.3
ER: Nice.
550
01:11:26.1
DH: Yeah.
551
01:11:26.9
ER: I mean, one man was from California, another man was from Kentucky.  And our minister had been in Miami at one time, and he said he always told fellas stationed there wherever he was, they should look him up when they were in that section, and he had a number of fellas that we met because they looked him up.  I remember one of them.  The minister took us for a ride, I think over in St. Pete, and later on he was sent to Alaska and I heard he was killedplane wreck or something.  There were otherslike I say, they attended church and they were just like your neighbors.
552
01:12:19.0
DH: I know it! We neverwe would sometimes go skating on Davis Islandits a big, big skating rink, and a lot of the fellas would go there and we wouldafterwards we would skate from there all the way downtown to catch the streetcar
553
01:12:39.2
EH: I remember that.
554
01:12:40.0
DH: Yeah.  I mean, nothingthat was the first thing (inaudible) who or what, we just never had any problems.
555
01:12:53.0
CB: You talk about there being men, how old were these men?
556
01:12:59.0
DH: Nineteen.  Eighteen, nineteen, twenty.
557
01:13:4.8
ER: This one from California, I kinda felt he was a little bit older, theyyou remember him (inaudible)?
558
01:13:11.2
DH: Yeah.
559
01:13:14.4
ER: We didnt think about their ages.
560
01:13:17.8
DH: No.
561
01:13:18.5
ER: They were just the servicemen.
562
01:13:19.6
DH: They were friendly and it was just fun talking about what they did, like this one fellow was from New Jersey and that was quite a bit of difference from Floridathe difference, I mean, thats what wed talk about.  How did you do things?
563
01:13:40.5
ER: Wed get together Sunday afternoon and gather around the piano and sing.  This one man is from North Carolina, I remember him, special friend of Doriss, and he had one particular song he liked and we always knew he was gonna ask for that one.  And we just had a pleasant time together.
564
01:14:2.5
CB: Well, the twothe Depression and the war, which do you think affected you the most, becoming an adult?
565
01:14:11.0
ER: Id say the Depression.
566
01:14:13.8
DH: I think so.  That was one thing, that the Depression was about the same time as the Prohibition, and there were a lot of stills up north.  And of course they would call my dad to come get the trucks out of the muck, and this place would have been back where the University Mall sits now, and I remember I used to (inaudible) flat bed truck to get up there (inaudible) (singing) I can see.  And I remember my dad coming up there and he was about to switch me a good, causeI mean, you dont know what was hidden under there and this worried him, so he wasnt sure about all this either.  I didnt do that but maybe once or twice.  That era wasit was something that I dont miss.  (inaudible) never gone through that Depression and that was that.
567
01:15:35.9
ER: We didnt have many things.
568
01:15:38.7
DH: No, we didnt.
569
01:15:40.1
ER: But we had friends.
570
01:15:41.0
DH: Thats true.  We didnt have hardly anything.
571
01:15:45.1
ER: We stuck with our friends, and I guess thats one reason were still friends today, because they meant so much to us when we were growing up.
572
01:15:53.5
CB: Do you remembersomeone earlier had mentioned to me their mother feeding the hobos coming through the backyard.
573
01:16:4.1
ER: Well, yeah.  Ours came through the front door, because it was easier to get through, than the back door.  I dont remember too many of them, but I remember she always fixed em some kind of a sandwich.
574
01:16:14.6
DH: We had a lot of them, cause the railroad ran up behind us, and being on that main highway, my mother would (inaudible) egg salad sandwiches and coffee.
575
01:16:29.5
ER: I cant remember what she gave em.
576
01:16:31.0
DH: And Ill never forget. And you know, they seemed to be veryand there again, never had a problem with any of that they wouldI dont know whether they had our place marked or what, but we had a lot of them.
577
01:16:45.9
ER: Course, Mother was worried because of her little girl.  People were just different in those days.
578
01:16:51.7
DH: I guess nobody was into thisnobody had anything; we didnt even have sense enough to know that you were poor.
579
01:17:0.1
ER: Thats right.
580
01:17:1.0
CB: So there wasnt any competition.
581
01:17:3.5
DH: Nope, not really.
582
01:17:4.6
CB: (inaudible)
583
01:17:6.1
ER: Nobody had anything better than yours.
584
01:17:8.2
CB: What adults do you remember the most from your childhood, besides obviously your own parents?  What else made an impression upon you when you were a child?  Obviously, your teachers.
585
01:17:20.2
ER: I was gonna say Sunday school teachervery impressive, we had Mrs. (inaudible).
586
01:17:28.0
DH: Yeah.
587
01:17:28.6
ER: Shes very hard of hearing, she couldnt see too wellshe had to squint, but sheand we would meet her in the house every Friday after school.  A lot of us lived in the same area, and she would have what she would call junior league.  And she didnt read us a story or the scripture, she told it to us.  She was a marvelous person.
588
01:17:50.2
DH: I didnt know her until Oscar and I were married, but she really was a (inaudible).  I remember there was a couple that lived behind the shop there, and when Mother and Dad would want to go off somewhere and do something, they would leave me with this couple.  He had one of those crystal radioswhen radios first startand so that, of course, was wonderful; you know, you had programs and that.  And she would always fix me oatmeal in the morningI dont know how she did it, but I loved it.  And she was our Sunday school superintendent (inaudible); she was so sweet.
589
01:18:38.6
CB: (inaudible) I know there was some tourist rentals in Sulphur Springs, but did the townsfolk all own their own homes, or did some of them rent, or did people move around often within the Springs?  You talked about staying in one house for thirty-five years.  Was that normal, was that unusual for that area?
590
01:19:5.8
DH: I dont think it was.
591
01:19:8.9
ER: No.  I think a lot of people did rent.  I know there was a big house next door to usMom and Dad always referred to it as the big barnseemed like we had a lot of different neighbors over the years.  But we stayed in our house from the time when I waswhatever it wasthree or four, untilwell, after I graduated from high school I lived in Michigan, as I said, and then I came back and stayed there.  So it wasthat was the old home place.
592
01:19:45.6
DH: I was shocked, though.  They would have lived out there around thirty-five years, and then we moved back down to the Spring,s and I wasnt there too long cause I was married (inaudible).  I dont know, I guess there was a lot of people that rented.  There was a lotthere was somethey would come down in the winter, they would save and save and save just to come down and it would be just a dilapidated place, but just to get out of that cold.
593
01:20:28.7
ER: We had two or three or more trailer parksis that what they called
594
01:20:35.0
DH: Well, cabins (inaudible).
595
01:20:38.9
ER: There was a couple up on Nebraska and Florida.
596
01:20:42.2
DH: Yeah, a trailer
597
01:20:43.1
ER: Trailer parks, I think thats what they called them.
598
01:20:46.8
DH: I know out there they had a lot of cabins that people would rent to people going through.  Real teeny, tiny just enough to store a bed and a (inaudible).
599
01:21:2.5
CB: So did you know anything about the Jim Walters Homes during that era?
600
01:21:6.9
DH: Oh, yeah.
601
01:21:8.4
ER: They started on our church property.
602
01:21:10.2
CB: Is that right?  Well, tell me what you know about them.
603
01:21:15.7
ER: Let me seeI have a stepson that when he and his wife got married, it was the Jim Walters home and they finished it up.
604
01:21:29.9
CB: Is that right?
605
01:21:30.7
ER: (inaudible)
606
01:21:35.6
DH: Yeah.  The house that we bought in the Springs, it wasnt a Jim Walters, but it was like a Jim Walters.  It was leftover parts of Drew Field [Tampa International Airport] and starting to smell.
607
01:21:49.1
CB: Oh, my goodness.
608
01:21:50.0
DH: Yeah, the Jim Walters, they were just really shells.  But that was much better than people were living in.
609
01:22:0.8
ER: People could afford that and finish it up as they could.
610
01:22:5.8
DH: Thats rightit was a long, long (inaudible)
611
01:22:9.1
CB: Did you know Jim Walters himself?
612
01:22:10.3
ER: No, I didnt.  My husband did, but I didnt.
613
01:22:13.7
CB: And what about Billy Graham?  I understand he was a fairly constant fixture in this area, early in his career
Billy Graham attended the Florida Bible Institute, now known as Trinity College, which was located in Temple Terrace at the current site of Florida College.
.
614
01:22:23.2
DH: Oh, yes, I have heard him preaching on the corner.
615
01:22:28.8
CB: Ive just been handed a book, Footprints of a Pilgrim: The Life and Loves of Ruth Bell Graham
Footprints of a Pilgrim: The Life and Loves of Ruth Bell Graham was written by Ruth Bell Graham and published in 2001.
.
616
01:22:39.3
ER: Its very interesting.
617
01:22:39.9
CB: Is it?  Okay.  So you didnt get to hear him when he was
618
01:22:43.6
DH: Oh, yeah.
619
01:22:43.9
CB: Street corner preacher, huh?
620
01:22:45.8
DH: One of our friends inI think its in that book or another book that we havewas the girl that he was supposedly engaged to before he married Ruth.  And that familythey were always very closethey would come down and visit people.  And he reallyI had never just stood and talked to him, but other people had.  But he was so close with his family (inaudible) and they had been up there, and as a matter of fact they had some homes up there. (inaudible) had homes up in (inaudible).  This one boy that I went to school with, he is a minister, also, and he lives in north (inaudible) and consequently he goes to the same church Billy [Graham] does, and they love each other (inaudible).  Yeah we all (inaudible).
621
01:23:51.3
ER: I just heard him once or twice at the stadium.
622
01:23:56.0
DH: Oh, yes, we were in the choir.
623
01:23:58.5
ER: I dont think I sang in the choir one time.
624
01:24:2.5
DH: (inaudible)
625
01:24:8.4
CB: So tell me about health routines that your family performed.  Just kinda everydayIm sure youre always told to brush your teeth, but how many thingsdid you go to the doctor a lot?  Were there certain things that were treated at home and everybody understood how to do that, or what?
626
01:24:29.1
DH: Well, you had a problem with anemia.
627
01:24:34.4
ER: Yeahthe doctor that was here in the Springs had been an old army doctor, and he and Daddy were good friends.  His office was in his home.  And my mother kept telling me I looked awful pale and she thought I was anemic and really ought to go to the doctor.  Well, some point we finally got there, and the first time we walked in the doorI dont remember him saying hello or anything; it was, Young lady, do you eat your breakfast?  No, sir, Mama wont let me out the door without drinking a glass of milk, and thats as much as I will eat at that time.  (to DH) You think she wants to know the rest of it?
628
01:25:24.5
CB: Do you want to tell me the rest of it?
629
01:25:27.2
DH: I just thought it was interesting.  I thought she was being very brave.
630
01:25:32.2
ER: Well, he had me eat a quarter pound of raw liver a day.
631
01:25:36.5
CB: Wow.
632
01:25:38.7
ER: My mother put it through a meat grinder and put it in either pineapple juice or grape juicestirred it up and you drink it real fast (inaudible) it.
633
01:25:49.0
CB: And did it cure it?
634
01:25:51.0
ER: I guess so.  Im strong and healthy now.
635
01:25:53.5
DH: Maybe thats why shes so healthy.
636
01:25:57.0
ER: I told my doctor about it and he just shakes his head.  We didnt have money to go to the dentist, and I had a real bad toothache and it seemed like it hurt every morning during my first yearly class, and I poked on my cheeks so hard, felt swollen.  Finally, she got up enough money somehow to take me to the dentist.  Think he pulled two teeth and filled one that time.
637
01:26:25.6
CB: Oh, my goodness.
638
01:26:27.3
ER: But we couldnt afford to go to doctors and dentists like that.
639
01:26:31.0
CB: So how did you treat the everyday ailments or hurts and painsdid you have any
640
01:26:38.6
ER: We took castor oil.  Castor oil was the old standby.
641
01:26:41.9
DH: And you did that, and if you were lucky you would drink root beer to get it down.  (inaudible) orange juice.
642
01:26:51.5
ER: It still floated on the top.
643
01:26:54.9
CB: Oh, no!  Oh, no.
644
01:26:56.6
ER: And then at one time we had to take black drop.  I told Mom, I said, It looks like ground up sandspurs to me.  It was just dry and you had to slush it down with a lot of water.
645
01:27:14.4
DH: I never took that.
646
01:27:16.3
ER: It was not the best.
647
01:27:17.8
DH: I know thoughagain, I go back to my daddy had a garage.  If you had a sore throat, you got your tongue swapped with kerosene.
648
01:27:28.0
CB: Kerosene?
649
01:27:28.7
DH: Mm-hm.
650
01:27:29.7
ER: Oh, we used to take kerosene and sugar.
651
01:27:31.5
DH: Yeah.
652
01:27:32.4
CB: For what?
653
01:27:33.9
ER: A few drops
654
01:27:34.8
DH: Sore throat, colds, I guess.
655
01:27:36.9
ER: I think the kerosene they have nowadays is different from what they had then, from what Ive read.
656
01:27:43.1
CB: Amazing.
657
01:27:44.7
ER: Sugar cube drops.
658
01:27:44.8
DH: Sure does get rid of a sore throat.
659
01:27:47.7
CB: (laughs)
660
01:27:49.0
ER: Just a few drops and a little sugar.
661
01:27:50.9
DH: Yeah.
662
01:27:52.2
CB: Were there very many surgeries back then, or
663
01:27:57.2
DH: Not reallyI dontyou know, the technology is (inaudible).  Oscar had to have his tonsils out and he washow old before they determined that?  Six?
664
01:28:12.4
ER: He never grew very much.  Mom bought him a little navy jacket, it looked like, and he wore that the second or third grade through the ninth grade
665
01:28:23.8
DH: Anyway, he was older than you think about, and they took him in the office and (inaudible)
666
01:28:32.1
CB: Oh, for heavens sakes.  (inaudible).
667
01:28:38.5
DH: I know it hurts every time we (inaudible).
668
01:28:41.1
CB: So do you think that basically you were just helping her back then?
669
01:28:45.0
ER: I think so.  I know at one time I jumped on a piece of tin and it sliced the back of my heel.  Didnt go to the doctor.  I dont remember what we put on it.  It healed up all right.
670
01:29:0.1
CB: Did anyone you know take the waters?  I know that was a big tourist thing to come and down
671
01:29:8.0
DH: That was take
672
01:29:9.2
CB: Was that only the tourists?
673
01:29:10.3
DH: Yeah, I think so, because
674
01:29:12.2
ER: Take what?
675
01:29:12.8
CB: Take the waters.
676
01:29:13.6
DH: At the pool.
677
01:29:15.3
ER: Oh, I was gonna say
678
01:29:16.9
DH: There was people, I guess, who did that, yeah.
679
01:29:20.3
CB: But it was prettyoutsiders.
680
01:29:21.7
DH: Yeah.
681
01:29:22.7
CB: So, in fifty to a hundred years when somebody is playing theseone of your wonderful descendentswhat would you want them to know or remember about the Sulphur Springs that you knew?  What would you want them to take away and know about this little town that at that point you might not be able to identify on a map?
682
01:30:14.3
ER: I was just gonna say friends, thats the main thing.
683
01:30:15.2
DH: Even sometimes bartering, we did a lot of bartering. It was justI dont know, it was just a closeness.  They had like awell, they called it a civic club.  It was a building next to the church, and they would have parties and things, and for refreshments we would have soda crackers and hot chocolate, if we were lucky.  And I would have been old enough to remember that.  And they would just leave every so often and just take care of it.  Find out who was in me.  Wed go out and (inaudible)
684
01:31:4.4
ER: I think everybody was willing to lend a helping hand, no matter who or what.  Justtheyre just different people nowadays.  We talked about having respect.
685
01:31:22.4
DH: Well, being there at the garage, you met all kinds of peopletourists stopped there, but then, all kinds of people would come in.  I can remember as a kid I could hide back in the back there some way and just watch and listenbut watching.  I learned a lot about people. (inaudible) isnt it remarkable, you think hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people stop by and no two people were alike.  Have a lot of people coming in from the westand there were no roads, particularlyor relatives coming from the north.  It would take them days and days to get down here.  There was no cabins to stop in then.  You had a tent with ya, if you were lucky, or you slept in the car.  I know my aunt and uncle, they had four children and they cooked their food along the way, and if they were lucky enough to get to a grocery store theyd buy maybe some extra canned goods or something.  But when they got down here, there was always a place for them to stay.  Thats just itwe just hadeverybody helped everyone.
686
01:33:2.5
ER: And nowadays you dont really do that.
687
01:33:7.3
CB: My final question then would be, what would you hope people would remember or knowor what would you want them to know about your life?
688
01:33:18.2
DH: That I helped somebody, somewhere in (inaudible), that I was helpful, and (inaudible).
689
01:33:38.0
ER: Id like them to remember Im honest, had a lot of friends, I think a lot of them and I hope they think a lot of me.
690
01:33:54.6
CB: Okay, then the last thing that I ask, then, is there anything else you want on that tape for somebody to know?  Anything you want to add or talk about or some memory you want to insert or anything else before we shut it off?
691
01:34:6.0
ER: I might think of something after you leave.
692
01:34:9.1
CB: I would be more than happy to come back.  Its not a problem.  You ladies have been delightful.  I cant tell you how much I appreciate this and look forward to maybe even an opportunity to do it again.  Thank you.