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Judith Szentivanyi and Edward Saint-Ivan oral history interview

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Material Information

Title:
Judith Szentivanyi and Edward Saint-Ivan oral history interview
Series Title:
Holocaust survivors oral history project
Uniform Title:
Holocaust & genocide studies oral history projects
Physical Description:
1 sound file (89 min.) : digital, MPEG4 file + ;
Language:
English
Creator:
Szentivanyi, Judith, 1928-
Ellis, Carolyn, 1950-
Florida Holocaust Museum
University of South Florida Libraries -- Holocaust & Genocide Studies Center
University of South Florida -- Library. -- Special & Digital Collections. -- Oral History Program
Publisher:
University of South Florida Tampa Library
Place of Publication:
Tampa, Fla
Publication Date:

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945) -- Personal narratives -- Hungary   ( lcsh )
Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945) -- Personal narratives   ( lcsh )
Holocaust survivors -- Interviews   ( lcsh )
Holocaust survivors -- Florida   ( lcsh )
Genocide   ( lcsh )
Crimes against humanity   ( lcsh )
Genre:
Oral history   ( local )
Online audio   ( local )
Oral history.   ( local )
Online audio.   ( local )
interview   ( marcgt )

Notes

Summary:
Oral history interview with Holocaust survivor Judith Szentivanyi. Szentivanyi was born in Miskolc, Hungary, in 1928. Conditions for Jews in her city remained stable from 1939 until March 1944, when the Germans invaded. That summer, Szentivanyi and her mother and sister were taken to a local brick factory, where they were detained for several days before being taken on a train to Auschwitz. At that point her mother and sister were taken away to the gas chambers, while Szentivanyi was taken to the Plaszow work camp. In January 1945 Plaszow was closed and the prisoners returned to Auschwitz. This time Szentivanyi was there for several months before being taken to Parschnitz, a sub-camp of Gross-Rosen, where she worked in the AEG factory. After being liberated by the Russians, Szentivanyi returned to Hungary, where she was reunited with her father and her aunt. She and her husband, Andor Szentivanyi, were married in 1948. They left Hungary in 1956 and came to the United States, where both worked in the medical field. In 1969 they came to Tampa, where her husband had been offered a position with the USF College of Medicine; he eventually became the college's dean. Szentivanyi retired in 1996 and frequently speaks about her experiences in the Holocaust. Her son, Edward Saint-Ivan, also participates in this interview.
Venue:
Interview conducted March 11, 2010.
Statement of Responsibility:
interviewed by Carolyn Ellis.

Record Information

Source Institution:
University of South Florida Library
Holding Location:
University of South Florida
Rights Management:
All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
aleph - 026080900
oclc - 698082020
usfldc doi - F60-00023
usfldc handle - f60.23
System ID:
SFS0021990:00001


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Full Text

PAGE 1

COPYRIGHT NOTICE This Oral History is copyrighted by the University of South Florida Libraries Oral History Program on behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of South Florida. Copyright, 20 1 0 University of South Florida. All rights, reserved This oral history may be used for research, instruction, and private study under the provisions of the Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of the United States Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section 107), which allows limited use of copyrig hted materials under certain conditions. Fair Use limits the amount of material that may be used. For all other permissions and requests, contact the UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA LIBRARIES ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at the University of South Florida, 4202 E. Fo wler Avenue, LIB 122, Tampa, FL 33620.


xml version 1.0 encoding UTF-8 transcript
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text Carolyn Ellis: Today is March 11, 2010.  We are interviewing Judith Szasz Szentivanyi, who is a survivor.  I am the interviewer; my name is Carolyn Ellis.  We are in Lutz, Florida, in the United States.  We are using English as our language, and the videographers are Jane Duncan and Nafa Faalogo.
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00:00:30.7
Uh, Judith, I was wondering if you could start by just telling us your complete name and then spelling it for us.
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Judith Szentivanyi: Judith, J-u-d-i-t-h, Szentivanyi, S-z-e-n-t-i-v-a-n-y-i, born Szasz, S-z-a-s-z.
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CE: Okay, and are there any other names that you have gone by?
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JS: No.
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CE: No.  Okay.  Any nicknames?
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JS: No.
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CE: No.
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JS: In Hungary there was no H after the Judit, so Judith was Judit.
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CE: Okay, so it was J-u-d-i-t.
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JS: T.  Yes.
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CE: Okay, and could you tell us your date of birth?
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JS: April 4, 1928.
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CE: Okay, and your age now?
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JS: It will be, on the fourth of April, eighty-two.
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CE: Eighty-two.  Okay, and then the city and country where you were born.
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JS: I was born in
Miskolc, M-i-s-k-o-l-c, Hungary, H-u-n-g-a-r-y.
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CE: Okay, thank you.  Lets startso in Hungary when you were born, and when you were a little girl, can you tell us a little bit about your life there?
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JS: My mother, who was a very good woman, was very ill with puerperal sepsis when I was born, and people were praying for her recovery in churches and in temples.  She recovered, but sixteen years later she was killed in the gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau.  I had a very good childhood.  My father was a dentist, he provided very well for us.  I went to a Protestant high school because there was no Jewish high school in Miskolc.  We were raised very religious and also very patriotic.  The school was very strict; even to movies we could not go without permission of the teachers.  My fatherand also my unclewere fighting in the First World War, and I had an uncle who gave his life during the First World War.  Everything seemed to be all right, although there was some anti-Semitism in Hungary.  Still, our life was very pleasant until the Second World War started.
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CE: Okay.  Now, lets go back and tell me a little bit about the neighborhood inyou grew up.  Was youryour city, was it a big city, or a small town?
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JS: Today, Miskolc is regarded as the second largest citythat time, I think it had 60,000 population.  But there was theatre there, there was orchestra there, and culturally it was a very valuable city.
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CE: Okay, and what about your neighborhood?
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JS: My neighborhood was a busy city with streetcars and (inaudible) buses.  We did not have a car; there was no need for any car.  And despite that my father was doing very well financially, we did not needwe had no need for a car.
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CE: Okay.  Were there other Jews in your neighborhood?
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JS: Yes.  There were Jews in Miskolc, and in my school, which wasas I told youa Protestant high school, there were five of us Jewish.
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CE: There were five?
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JS: Five, and the rest was not Jewish.  Everybody was very friendly with us, but we were never invited to their parties and we did not invite them to our parties.
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CE: So you stayed fairly separate?
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JS: Fairly separate.  There were children, also, who were converted Jews, and they strived to be with the non-Jewish people.
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CE: So they were converted to?
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JS: From Jewish
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CE: From Jewish to Protestant
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JS: Judaism toyeah.
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CE: And you said they tried to
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JS: They tried to be with the non-Jewish
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CE: With the non-Jewish people.
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JS: But at the end, theirthey ended up the same way.
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CE: Okay, sookay.  And did you feel anti-Semitism in school?
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JS: No.
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CE: No.  Not at all.
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JS: Definitely not.  Never.  No.
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CE: And not in your neighborhood?
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JS: Well, you know, I was a childdid not realize that there was anti-Semitism although, as I understand, there was.
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CE: Okay.
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JS: Because in the universities there was so-called numerus clausus, which means that only a certain amount of Jews could be admitted in universities.
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CE: Okay, and whats that phrase you use?
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JS: They called the numerus clausus, this is allotting
47
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CE: Okay, okay.  Were you close to your parents?
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JS: Very close, yes.  My mother was a very good woman; she was, in every respect, a very good person.
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CE: And did you have siblings?
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JS: Yes, I had a small sibling.  She was ten years younger than I was, because they could not decide to have another child because my mother was so sick when I was born.
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CE: And were you and your sister close?
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JS: Yeah.  Well, she was a small child
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CE: I know, okay.
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JS: I was sixteen when she was six.
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CE: Yes, and so, you were in 1939 you were like ten years old, right?
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JS: Yes.
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CE: When all this was happening.
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JS: When she was born.
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CE: Okay, and your father
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JS: Oh, no, I was much more when this all happened.
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CE: Yes.  But when she was born, you were
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JS: When she was born I was, yes.
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CE: Okay.  So how old were you when things started to change?
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JS: In 1939, I was eleven years old.  In 1939 the Second World War started.
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CE: Eleven years old, okay.  So what is the first thing that you recall that made you aware that something was changing?
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JS: Well, the first thing that happened that they called a man up, they stripped him from the ranks what they got in the First World War, and they attached them to the army because Hungary was fighting with the Germans, and then put them into forced labor camps.  Everybody who could walk, as man, was taken to the forced labor camps and many of them have to pick minesmines
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CE: Mines?
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JS: Those who have to pick mines did not come home.
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CE: So when you say pick mines, what do you mean, exactly?
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JS: They had to go to the fields and pick up the mines.
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CE: Okay, that were lying there?
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JS: Lying on the fields.  And those who were unfortunate to be in those camps, they died.
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CE: They got
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JS: Two of my uncles died in this.
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CE: Died.
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JS: But those who were in other camps, many of them survived.  My father survived, who was a dentist in the camps and took care of the teeth of the other people who were in the camps.
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CE: So at what point did this affect your family?
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JS: My father was taken away and we were left without income.
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CE: Okay, and as I recall that was laterit didnt happen right away that your father was taken.
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JS: It happened several times.  Several times he came home and was taken away, and then he came home and he was taken away.  And at the time we were taken away, he was away.
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CE: He was away.
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JS: He was not home.
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CE: And do you know which camps he went to or where he was?
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JS: No, we knew that he was in Ukraine somewhere.
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CE: Ukraine.
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JS: And one day when he came home, he told us that there was a Jewish family they tried support and they tried to give them food, and one day they disappeared.  So we should have realized that something very bad is going on in Ukraine, which is very close to Hungary.
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CE: So what was lifehow many years was ithow many months was he leaving and coming back, leaving and coming back?
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JS: Well, I cannot tell you, but I know that between 1939 and 1944 this happened many times.
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CE: Many times.
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JS: And he tried to arrange with somebody in our house to provide us a hiding place, but at the last minute he said hes not going to do it.  And he also sent away my little sister to somebody and he sent away me to somebody
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CE: Oh, really?
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JS: but I came back.  Yes.
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CE: Okay, and who did you go to?
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JS: A friend of his, who was not Jewish, to another city.
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CE: To another city.
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JS: But I came back and the little sister was brought home.
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CE: So everybody came back together.
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JS: Yeah, everybody came back together.
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CE: And how were you supportinghow was your mother supporting the family?
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JS: Well, originally my mother was a well-do woman, and
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CE: What do you mean?
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JS: Originally my mother hadwas a well-do woman, so we got well
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CE: Well-do woman
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JS: Gotwell, we just lived off what we had.
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CE: Okay.
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JS: And we had an uncle who was still at home; he was not taken to the labor camp because he was sick.  He had a little restaurant and a little cafeteria, I would say, and we were eating by him.
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CE: Okay, okay.  So, what happened then?  What was the next thing?
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JS: Well, gradually the times got worse and worse
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CE: Yeah, were you still going to school then?
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JS: I was, yes.  Until last minute I was going to school.
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CE: Okay, and were you being treated any differently?
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JS: No.
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CE: No?  Still not?
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JS: No, at the school I was treated well.
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CE: Okay.  How about in the community?  Were there things you couldnt do at that point?
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JS: Well, gradually things got worse, we had to get yellowwhere afteruntil the Germans didnt come to Hungarythings just got worse, but nothing happened.  But in March 1944
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CE: Okay.
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JS: The Germans came to Hungary and occupied Hungary, and this is a very surprising thing because Hungary was fighting with the Germans.  But anyway, they occupied Hungary, and this was the time that things really got worse for the Jews.  And this is when we have to put on the yellow stars, and also this is when things had got really very bad.  We could not go to public places and people who were very friendly to us before turned their hats when they saw us, and things got very dangerous.  Now, most people were taken to the ghettos, but not us.  And why not us?  That I still dont understand, but their explanation was that people who were physicians families were not taken to the ghettos, and their explanation was physicians are very badly needed in the war and this is why they are leaving the physicians families.  But one day they came for us, and they were taking us on the streets of Miskolc to the brick factory.
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CE: Okay, okay.  Stop there for just one second and just tell mecan you tell me about that day that they came to get you, what that was like?  Do you remember details?
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JS: It was already June 1944 or end of May 1944, I dont know for sure.
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CE: Okay, and did they come into your house?
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JS: Yes.
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CE: Okay, can you tell me about that?
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JS: I dont know.
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CE: You dont remember the details?
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JS: No.
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CE: Do you remember them coming into your house?
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JS: No.
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CE: No?  So you
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JS: I dont remember at all.  About thatall that I remember was we went on the street to this brick factory, and people were standing on two sides of the streets and they were laughing and applauding and spitting on us.
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CE: Okay, this waswas this still in your town?
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JS: Yes.
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CE: Yes, okay, okay.  So they were laughing and spitting at you.
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JS: Yes, they were.  Yes.  And then we arrived to the brick factory where we were real crowdedand the reason why they took us to the brick factory was because the wheels there behind the brick factory, and every day until we were dead they called us, four or five people, and the reason for that was that they wanted to find out where are the values [valuables] hidden.
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CE: Okay, so they would call up four or five people and ask them?
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JS: To find out where their values are hidden.  Now, some non-Jewish people came to us before and they said, We will hide your values.  Some of them really thought that we come back and theyll give them back, and some of them thought we never will come back and so they can keep it.
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CE: Oh, my.
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JS: Okay, so they called on these four or five people to find out where the values are and they beat them to death.  Really.
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CE: Did you see this?
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JS: No, I did not, but it was known.  Okay?  So I was so afraid they might call my mother that I was almost relieved when they put us in the boxcar.
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CE: Okay, now back into thiswhat did you call it?  The brick factory?
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JS: Brick factory.
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CE: So the brick factory was a big building?
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JS: No it was a brickbrick something, where we were sitting on the grounds.  It was
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CE: So you just were sitting there?
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JS: Sitting on the ground staring.  It was a big, big (inaudible).
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CE: Okay.
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JS: I dont think there was a big building there.  It was, you know, where they made bricks.
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CE: Where they made bricks?  Okay.  And you weredid you have any possessions with you, at that time?
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JS: Yes, at that time we took with us food and all kind of things, what we could carry.
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CE: Yeah, okay.  And were you there for a few days?
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JS: Yes, about four or five days.
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CE: Four or five days?  And did they allow you to go to the bathroom andwas there a place?
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JS: I dont remember.
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CE: You dont remember any of that?  Okay.  So, but mainly you remember just being crowded in this area?
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JS: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
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CE: Do you remember sleeping?
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JS: Well, we were sitting on the grounds there.
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CE: Okay, okay.
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JS: Not too much.
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CE: So then
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JS: And we used that little cookies, I remember, and cakes what we took with us.  We went into the boxcars, and ninety-five in our boxcar.
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CE: Ninety-five in one boxcar?
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JS: Thats right.  So we were very crowded.
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CE: Could you just stand in the boxcar?  Could you sit down?
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JS: I think we couldvery, very little sit.  Yes.  And it took us about four or five days or something like that until we arrived to Auschwitz-Birkenau.
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CE: Okay.  And was that boxcar like the boxcar
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JS: Yes.
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CE: in the museum?  Or was
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JS: Yes, very similar to that.  And then
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CE: Do you remember anything about that trip?  Being in the boxcar?  Do you have any memories of that?
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JS: No, I just remember sitting there with my mother and my little sister in that car.  And then we got out and they said my mother to go on one side with my little sister and me to the other side.  And I asked whether I could go with them and they saidthey just pushed me to the other side, and then I asked whether I could visit them and then somebody said, Yes, they are in the H camp.  And I asked, What is the H camp? and they said Himmel.
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CE: And they said?
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JS: Himmel, which is heaven.
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CE: Himmel?
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JS: Himmel, which in German
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00:19:2.5
CE: How do you spell it?
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JS: H-i-m-m-e-l.
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CE: Himmel, and that means
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JS: German heaven.
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CE: And you knew what that meant?
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JS: Oh, I spoke perfect German.
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CE: Did you?
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JS: Yes.  Yes.  But, you know, there was no time to realize anything.  Pretty soon we were taken to a place where they took our hairthey shaved us completely and they took our clothing and they gave us one dress, no underwear, and they took us to a place which was called B-3.
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CE: B-3?
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JS: Yes.  Its very interesting that there were little streets and there were barracks on both sides, and I met some people on the other side of the street from B-3 and none of them came home.
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00:20:1.6
CE: None of them came home?
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00:20:2.8
JS: No.  On the other side, none of them.  Well, we were on B-3.  On B-3 there was no sleeping facility, nothing; we were sitting on the ground again.  We were thereI dont know for sure, whether three days or four days, very, very slow dayswhen they put us back in the boxcars, and this time we went to Paszw.
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CE: Okay, now let me just ask you a few questions.  When you were in B-3, you knew the people who were with you, right?  The other people?
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JS: Oh, yes, most of them.
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CE: They were from your town.
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JS: Well, sure.  I will tell you about my friend who I grew up with; she was with me all the time, and I will tell you at the end when I met her again in Israel.
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CE: When you met her again?
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JS: Yes.
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CE: So she was a good friend of yours, and she was with
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JS: She was with me all the time, yes.
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00:21:0.4
CE: And she was your age?
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JS: And she was since kindergarten with me, yes.  And I will tell you at the end about her, because thats an interesting story.
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CE: Okay.  And this dress, do you remember what the dress looked like that you wore?
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JS: No dress.
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CE: You dont remember?
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JS: No, I dont.
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CE: Okay.
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JS: She was with me this time, and her mother.
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CE: Her mother, too?
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00:21:27.8
JS: And her mother, too, and her mother was very good to me and she tried to take care of both of us.  So, we were taken with the boxcar back tonear to Krakow to Paszw.  But Paszw wasI discovered when I was in the movieand so Schindlers List, because it was about the same camp where I was.  It was called Paszw, P-l-a-s-z-o-v, -w, something like that.  Paszw.
207
00:22:7.5
CE: Yes, I have the spelling here.
208
00:22:9.5
JS: But anyway, the thing was that we never have seen Schindler and we never have seen the camp boss either.  But what we had to do was to drag these big stones around, or they had hammers and we had to hammer hills.
209
00:22:30.0
CE: Hammer
210
00:22:30.7
JS: Hills.
211
00:22:31.4
CE: Hills.
212
00:22:32.2
JS: And this guy
213
00:22:33.9
CE: What do you mean by hammer?
214
00:22:34.8
JS: Just to hammer.
215
00:22:36.3
CE: Just hammer at the hills.
216
00:22:37.4
JS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
217
00:22:38.4
CE: Okay.
218
00:22:38.9
JS: If we didnt do it fast enough we were beaten.
219
00:22:41.5
CE: And so the rocks you just carry from place to place.
220
00:22:44.2
JS: Yes.
221
00:22:44.7
CE: And then did you carry them back?
222
00:22:45.6
JS: Yes, yes.
223
00:22:46.4
CE: Yes, so it was just to make work.
224
00:22:48.0
JS: Just to make suffering, nothing else.  And there were kapos.  Now, there were two type of kapos there: one type are criminals who were in the camp, and one type were Jews, whojust to survivecame to this kind of work, and they were very bad, too.
225
00:23:11.6
CE: They were very bad to
226
00:23:13.5
JS: Also, yes.  And they were beating us and we were running or trying to hammer these hills.
227
00:23:23.4
CE: Did everybody work in that camp?  Was everybody working?
228
00:23:27.1
JS: Well, in that group where I was, everybody worked, yes.  Although my friend asked me that her mother for a short time was in what they call the (inaudible), which is where they put the sick people, you know?  And also, I understand that when we arrived we were still in good shape.  They took out some people who were not in good shape and sent them to Auschwitzthis is what I understand from the book that I readalready here.
229
00:24:4.0
CE: Okay.
230
00:24:4.7
JS: Well, anyway, I dont know how long we were there, but they dissolve the whole camp.  They dissolve the camp because the Russians were coming there.
231
00:24:14.1
CE: Now, before you move onlet me just see if you have any other memories of that camp.  What were the sleeping arrangements in that camp?
232
00:24:23.0
JS: They had those kind of sleeping arrangements, you know, the
233
00:24:27.0
CE: Bunks?
234
00:24:28.4
JS: The bunks, yes, yes.
235
00:24:29.9
CE: But how many people were on
236
00:24:30.9
JS: Five.  Five on one.
237
00:24:32.1
CE: Five people.
238
00:24:32.6
JS: Yes, if somebody moved, then everybody moved.
239
00:24:35.7
CE: Do you remember anythingwere you at work all day long?
240
00:24:41.4
JS: Yes.
241
00:24:42.1
CE: From early morning till
242
00:24:44.0
JS: Yes.
243
00:24:44.6
CE: And what about the food?  Do you remember food?
244
00:24:48.1
JS: Well, I dont remember exactly the food in that particular place.  I will remember later on what kind of food we had, but there I dont remember the food, what we had there.
245
00:25:0.2
CE: Do you remember being hungry?
246
00:25:0.8
JS: Not yet.
247
00:25:2.5
CE: Not yet.
248
00:25:3.2
JS: Because that was in the beginning, you know; it was in the beginning, so really, it was the first weeks.  Dont remember.  Later on we were very hungry.  Well, anyway, so they took us back to Auschwitz-Birkenau again because they dissolved the camp.
249
00:25:23.4
CE: Okay.  Do you know why they dissolved the camp?
250
00:25:26.2
JS: Yes.  Because they told the Russians are coming.
251
00:25:29.2
CE: Okay.  Okay, thats right, you said that.
252
00:25:30.8
JS: They dissolved the camp, the whole camp, and you can see in the movie [Schindlers List] too that they dissolve the camp, and this time they took the mother of my friend.
253
00:25:40.7
Yeah, and so the two of us remainedyes.  We were in Auschwitz-Birkenau this time for about threefour months, I think.  We did not do any work at all in there, but we had to stand up in five in a row every day several times and they were counting us and counting us and counting us; they called that Zahlappell in German.
254
00:26:16.2
CE: Can you spell that for us?
255
00:26:17.8
JS: Im not sure, because its a German word.  ZahZ-e-h-l-a-p-p-e-l.  I think.  Zahlappell, they called it.  Well, anyway, there we were standing there and they counted and counted and counted, right.  Somebody didnt look well, they took it out.  And this wasand it was already cold, it was October, its already cold in Poland, and there we are still only one dress, you know?
256
00:26:59.0
CE: Same dress?
257
00:26:59.7
JS: Because when we arriveagain they undressed us and gave us one dress.  We were there for a while and then they took us back to the boxcar, and this is what saved our life, that they took us toit is really belonged later on to Czechoslovakia, but it was part of Germany that time, but it really belonged to Czechoslovakia.  But I dont know how they call this part of Czechoslovakia; its a beautiful area.
258
00:27:39.9
CE: Was this
Parschnitz?  Parschnitz?
259
00:27:42.8
JS: They took us to Parschnitz, yes.  And that was a big building.  There were already Hungarians there, and also there were Poles there, Polish people there.  From there weevery day on the train, we had to go to Trautenau.
260
00:28:2.6
CE: Trautenau.
261
00:28:3.9
JS: Which they call Trutnov today.  Is Czech.
262
00:28:8.0
CE: Which is T-r-u-t-n-o-v, right?
263
00:28:11.1
JE: Trutnov today, but was Trautenau.
264
00:28:13.6
CE: Which is T-r-a-u-t-e-n-a-u.
265
00:28:16.9
JS: Yes.  There was a factory there what called AEG, or A-E-G.
266
00:28:24.1
CE: Right, which is the General Electricity company.  Thats what I
267
00:28:29.2
JS: Today it is, but that time it was
268
00:28:33.5
CE: I have the name.
269
00:28:33.2
JS: it was making parts of airplanes.
270
00:28:39.8
CE: Is this the name right here?
271
00:28:42.0
JS: AEG.
272
00:28:43.1
CE: I cant pronounce it.
273
00:28:47.2
JS: Probablywe just knew it as AEG.
274
00:28:51.4
CE: AEG.
275
00:28:51.9
JS: Yes.  Yes.  This is where we were working, and the work was not bad at all.
276
00:28:57.6
CE: What did you do there?
277
00:28:58.8
JS: Who knows?  I dont know.
278
00:29:1.3
CE: Something with parts?
279
00:29:2.2
JS: Yeah.  Well, I dont know.  The work was not bad, but we were very hungry and we were very poorly dressed and it was very cold to run to the train all the time.  And that time we had
280
00:29:18.8
CE: So you took the train up to work.
281
00:29:20.5
JS: Yes.
282
00:29:21.1
CE: And back.
283
00:29:21.9
JS: And back.  And we had hardly anything to eat, and you can imagine the Germans had very little to eat, so you can imagine at this point they hardly gave us anything.  And you know, one dayI dont know exactly what happened, but something very bad happened with thehow they call that red vegetable?
284
00:29:50.3
CE: Vegetables.
285
00:29:51.7
JS: That red vegetableI know it in Hungarian but dont know it in English.
286
00:29:58.2
CE: Is it something you eat?
287
00:29:59.2
JS: Its red.
288
00:29:59.9
CE: Its red?
289
00:30:0.4
JS: Yes, to eat.  Its red.
290
00:30:1.5
CE: Its a vegetable?
291
00:30:2.0
JS: Red yes, and soft.
292
00:30:3.3
CE: Tomanot tomato.
293
00:30:5.4
JS: No.  Red and soft.
294
00:30:7.0
CE: No.  Red and soft?
295
00:30:8.1
JS: Well, anyway, we picked it up from the floor, and we were very severely punished.  I still dont eat it.
296
00:30:14.9
CE: So its a vegetable and its red and its soft?
297
00:30:18.7
JS: Yes, they serve it with meat sometimes.
298
00:30:22.4
CE: Beets?  Beets?
299
00:30:24.8
JS: Beets?  Yes.
300
00:30:26.3
CE: Beets.  Yes.  Okay.
301
00:30:27.2
JS: Yes.
302
00:30:28.0
CE: Yes, yes.
303
00:30:28.7
JS: I know we were very severely punished because we picked it up from the floor and ate it, and we were very severely punished, and neither my friend or me ever eat this thing.  Well, anyway
304
00:30:44.4
CE: So, can you recall how you were feeling all this time?
305
00:30:49.6
JS: Well, what you have to know is if somebody doesnt eat right, then the person gets deficient in protein, and if somebody gets deficient in protein then the person swells up.  Right, like this
306
00:31:7.4
CE: Yeah.
307
00:31:8.1
JS: And this is how people died.
308
00:31:9.5
CE: It is.
309
00:31:10.7
JS: And I had other very horrible experience when a girl raised her hand on one of the SS women and she was executed before us.
310
00:31:28.3
CE: You saw that?
311
00:31:29.1
JS: Yeah.
312
00:31:29.6
CE: Did theythey shot her?
313
00:31:33.7
JS: Yes.  Yes.  And her mother was there, too.
314
00:31:36.9
CE: Oh.
315
00:31:37.6
JS: Yeah.  So this was a horrible thing, really, what happened.  I dont know whether the mother was executed or the girl, but
316
00:31:45.4
CE: One or the other was, while the other one watched.
317
00:31:47.5
JS: One of them was, yeah, while the other was watching, and this was a horrible thing because she raised her hand on her.
318
00:31:54.7
CE: Yeah.  Did you see other people being killed during this time?
319
00:31:59.4
JS: No, I didnt.
320
00:32:1.0
CE: You didnt?
321
00:32:1.6
JS: No.
322
00:32:2.2
CE: Okay.  But you just knew people were being killed?
323
00:32:5.9
JS: Oh, well, there was some foods we got occasionally, and this we got in Auschwitz and this foodone is hand-cheese.
324
00:32:18.8
CE: Hand-cheese?
325
00:32:19.8
JS: Hand-cheese very occasionally, and I think we got this hand-cheese because it has a very bad smell.  I still love it.  No, this hand-cheese has such a bad smell that when they give us and everybody was smelling, I think this is why they gave us.
326
00:32:38.0
CE: They wanted you to smell?
327
00:32:40.4
JS: Yeah, they wanted us.  Well, I still love it, and one day when I went to the university I saw it in one of the stores this hand-cheese and I put it in my briefcase and went to the university, and I forgot I bought it and soon I see that everybody goes away from me. (laughs) And I didnt know why.  The other very rare food was that roundhow you call that?
328
00:33:13.0
CE: Meat?
329
00:33:13.6
JS: Yes, a round.
330
00:33:14.7
CE: (inaudible)
331
00:33:15.3
JS: No, that round front with that type of thing.
332
00:33:20.8
CE: Like a French knot bologna?
333
00:33:22.7
JS: Bologna, yes.  Very rarelyone piece.  And it was said that it was made from people.
334
00:33:31.7
CE: From people?
335
00:33:32.7
JS: I dont know whether thats true or not.  And when there was a holiday, then they gave us spoonful of jam.
336
00:33:40.6
CE: One spoonful of jam?
337
00:33:42.8
JS: Yes. There wasour food was of very lean soup and one piece of bread.  In some cases people did exchange their piece of bread for cigarettes.  And I dont think they survived that, the war thing, because of hunger.
338
00:34:3.5
CE: Did you get sick during this time?
339
00:34:5.9
JS: Yeah, I got sick.  I was in a hospital before I came home, and one day all the Germans disappeared from the camp and the Russians arrived.
340
00:34:19.7
CE: Okay, tell me about that day.  Do you remember that day?
341
00:34:23.3
JS: Yes, I do remember
342
00:34:25.2
CE: Tell me the details of that day.
343
00:34:27.7
JS: Well, first of all, the funny detail was that, you know, from each groupand this is really a shame to thinkone Jewish woman was elected as the boss of the others who could order around the others.  She did not kill anybody or hit anybody but could order around the others.  She forgot about herself, and after the Russians came and everything was over she still ordered around the others, okay?  So I will tell about her a little bit later because very interesting thing appeared after that, because when we came home everybody denounced her.
344
00:35:16.0
CE: Everybody
345
00:35:17.6
JS: Everybody denounced her.
346
00:35:19.0
CE: Announced?
347
00:35:19.8
JS: Everybody.
348
00:35:21.1
CE: Renounced her?
349
00:35:22.9
JS: Denounced her, yes.
350
00:35:24.2
CE: Denounced her, okay.
351
00:35:24.8
JS: Yeah.  So anyway, (laughs) I was in the line for food and she push me out from there, okay?  Well, anyway I was the only one who did not denounce her because my father became the head of the joint
352
00:35:45.2
CE: Joint.
353
00:35:46.8
JS: Joint of the North Hungary, so I didnt not want to interfere with the rules progress because she didnt get anything because of this.
354
00:36:0.7
CE: Okay, so let me see if I understand.  She was a
355
00:36:5.0
JS: They elected somebody from the group.
356
00:36:8.9
CE: Okay, so she was just a person like you, a Jewish person?
357
00:36:12.6
JS: Like me, who could order around the others.
358
00:36:16.2
CE: And you elected her or the SS?
359
00:36:18.7
JS: No, the Germans.
360
00:36:19.7
CE: The Germans
361
00:36:20.5
JS: Yes.
362
00:36:21.1
CE: elected her.
363
00:36:21.8
JS: Why?  We dont know, but she couldshe didnt have to work, she could order around the others
364
00:36:28.5
CE: Okay, so she was kind of their spy, it sounds like?
365
00:36:31.1
JS: Thats right, yeah.  Yeah, yeah.  Well, anyway, interesting things happened.  Well, anyway
366
00:36:39.3
CE: Can you think of any other stories like that from the camps?
367
00:36:42.5
JS: From the camp?
368
00:36:43.8
CE: Mm-hm.
369
00:36:44.5
JS: Well, its all sad stories, only sad stories, because under these circumstances people can get very bad.
370
00:36:55.0
CE: Are there any that you would want to tell, or not?
371
00:36:58.6
JS: Id rather not.
372
00:37:0.3
CE: Youd rather not, okay.
373
00:37:1.8
JS: Under these circumstances even children can get bad with their mother and mothers can get bad with their children, believe me, because food was the only thing what was important for everybody.  And I dont want to speak about that.
374
00:37:24.7
CE: Yes, I understand that.  And I also understand that that could happen.
375
00:37:28.8
JS: It could happen, yeah.
376
00:37:30.8
CE: It makes sense.
377
00:37:34.3
JS: So, the Russians arrived, and they were good meaning Russians who thought, These people need to be fed, so what they brought pounds and pounds of sugar and flour and meat and they just threw it there.
378
00:37:54.4
CE: Just threw it out into the crowd.
379
00:37:56.4
JS: Just in the crowd.  So, who was strong enough got it; who was weak enough like me didnt get it.
380
00:38:4.1
CE: And you were weak because of all the weight you had lost.
381
00:38:7.9
JS: The weight I was, and those people who got it got very sick and some of them died because if somebody doesnt eat for month and months and monthsbelieve mecannot eat pounds and pounds of sugar and flour.
382
00:38:25.8
CE: Did they get sick immediately or did it take a while?
383
00:38:29.3
JS: They got horrible diarrhea, horrible diarrhea.  Believe me, they ate it so
384
00:38:35.9
CE: Fast.
385
00:38:37.2
JS: Yeah, yeah.
386
00:38:38.2
CE: Did you eat any of it when they threw it in?
387
00:38:44.2
JS: No, I did not.  I never got to eat.
388
00:38:46.6
CE: You didnt get to?
389
00:38:47.8
JS: I never got to eat, no.
390
00:38:48.6
CE: So, the Russians come in and throw in the food
391
00:38:53.5
JS: Throw in the food.
392
00:38:54.9
CE: And what happens then?
393
00:38:56.0
JS: And then some of them, like me, they took us to a hospital.  They took us to a hospital in Trautenau.  I was in that hospital I dont know how longfew weeks maybe, and then they put us on a train and I got home.
394
00:39:13.5
CE: Okay, now what wastell me about being in the hospital.
395
00:39:17.2
JS: Well, the most horrible thing about being liberated is for somebody who suddenly realizes what happened because, until you are in the concentration camp, you dont realize what happened.  Only after you are liberatedthen you realize what happened.
396
00:39:40.7
CE: So when youre in the concentration camp
397
00:39:43.6
JS: You dont care whether you live or die, so nothing makes any difference.  Okay?
398
00:39:50.3
CE: Nothing does.
399
00:39:50.9
JS: Nothing, nothing.
400
00:39:52.2
CE: Did you have anydid anywhat kept you alive, do you think?
401
00:39:57.4
JS: You just keep alive, and I
402
00:40:1.5
CE: Did you want to be
403
00:40:3.7
JS: No.
404
00:40:4.9
CE: You didnt care.
405
00:40:5.8
JS: You dont care.  But you speak about food all the time, because food is the only thing that you care about.
406
00:40:14.2
CE: Okay, so that was all the conversation was
407
00:40:16.5
JS: Food wasfood is all the conversation, thats the only thing that you care about.  And I would like very much if you would leave out what I told you about mothers and children, because I would not like to have that in the tape if possible.
Given the comments lack of specificity, the interviewer and the interviewee later agreed that the comment would not be redacted.
408
00:40:31.8
CE: We can talk about that.
409
00:40:34.6
JS: Take it out.
410
00:40:35.2
CE: There are no details.
411
00:40:36.6
JS: Yeah, I dont want it to be there.  Well, anyway, food is the only thing what matters, nothing else matters.  Okay?
412
00:40:47.3
CE: Did you talk about the people you had lost?
413
00:40:50.6
JS: Nothing.
414
00:40:51.4
CE: Relatives?  None of that.
415
00:40:52.4
JS: You dont speak anything about anything.
416
00:40:54.0
CE: Just food.
417
00:40:54.4
JS: Only after you are liberated; then suddenly it comes to your mind that you lost everybody, and maybe you go home and you find nobody.  And since I was sixteen, maybe I am not even able to support myself, because I was only in high school and I have noI have no way to support myself, I dont know anything.  So what will now happen to me?  And this is the most horrible feeling that you can go through.
418
00:41:31.8
CE: Oh.  Im not sure I can even imagine it.
419
00:41:36.7
JS: Yes, and this is the only time when you realize that what happened.  Until that time you dont care.
420
00:41:46.7
CE: So you remember being in the hospital and now all these thoughts are coming
421
00:41:52.3
JS: Thats right, and then the thoughtsthen this isyes, yes.  Yes.  And then I remember that when I came home on the train, I was even thinking about jumping out of the train.
422
00:42:7.5
CE: Oh.
423
00:42:8.6
JS: I remember thinking, Should I jump out?  Yes.
424
00:42:12.2
CE: And were you thinking about just being alone and not being able to support yourself?
425
00:42:19.2
JS: Thats right.  I was sure I cannot support myself.  That, and that
426
00:42:23.9
CE: And did you think about family at that point?
427
00:42:28.2
JS: I was sure I had nobody.
428
00:42:30.4
CE: Okay.
429
00:42:31.4
JS: This is what I thought.  Well, anyway, I arrived home, and there was my father in his office.
430
00:42:39.5
CE: Okay, well, I want the details.  So you arrive
431
00:42:42.5
JS: Well
432
00:42:43.2
CE: And what happened?
433
00:42:44.0
JS: Well
434
00:42:44.5
CE: You get off the train
435
00:42:45.5
JS: Where I arriveto Budapest, which is the capital of Hungary.  And I did not even look after anybody because I was sure I had nobody.  And somebody told me that, Do you know any relatives in Budapest?  I said, Yes, I had an aunt here, but I am sure she is not alive.  So they said, But why dont you go and look her up?  So I started to walk and go and walked and walkedthis was a big walk.  And I arrived to her house, to her homeshe had a small apartmentand she was standing in the kitchen, cooking horsemeat and she was there.
436
00:43:40.7
CE: You remember what she was cooking, thats great.
437
00:43:43.3
JS: I always remember, she was making horsehorsemeat, because that was all that was in Hungary that time, from horsemeat hamburger. And she said, Your father is at the railroad.  Hes expecting you to get home because somebody told him that you are alive, so hes obviously in the railroads to see when you are coming.
438
00:44:12.0
CE: Wow.
439
00:44:12.7
JS: Yeah.
440
00:44:13.1
CE: So Budapest waswas that near where you grew up?
441
00:44:16.9
JS: About sixty miles or something like that, yeah.
442
00:44:20.0
CE: Sixty miles?  Okay, was he living there then?
443
00:44:22.1
JS: No.  She just came up to stay atstay on the railroad to wait for me, because they told me I am alive.
444
00:44:32.0
CE: Okay, was he living with your aunt then?
445
00:44:34.4
JS: No.
446
00:44:35.0
CE: Staying with her?
447
00:44:35.7
JS: Oh, well, during that time, because he was staying there because somebody told me I am alive.
448
00:44:42.9
CE: Okay, and you were gonna
449
00:44:44.1
JS: And he knew that I am the only one who is alive.
450
00:44:46.9
CE: Okay.
451
00:44:47.5
JS: Yeah.  He already knew that my mother and my sister is not, but that I am alive.
452
00:44:52.5
CE: And this auntwas that his sister?
453
00:44:54.8
JS: Yes, his sister.  So, then he came home, and we started to go home to Miskolc.
454
00:45:2.6
CE: So when he comes home and youhe comes to the aunts house and youre there
455
00:45:5.9
JS: And funnily, that part I dont remember.
456
00:45:8.9
CE: You dont remember?
457
00:45:9.5
JS: No, no.
458
00:45:10.7
CE: Okay, interesting.
459
00:45:11.3
JS: Nope, that part I dont remember, when he came.
460
00:45:14.0
CE: So you dont remember actually seeing him the first moment.
461
00:45:16.7
JS: No, I dont remember.  He writes it up in his book, but differently.  But that
462
00:45:21.9
CE: Okay, you told me that he had written some of the
463
00:45:23.6
JS: Yes, but he wrote it down differently.  Okay, anyway, he doesnt write it; he writes it down that he saw me coming on the railroad.
464
00:45:35.4
CE: On the train, okay.
465
00:45:36.5
JS: On the train.
466
00:45:36.9
CE: So that was the way he remembered it.
467
00:45:38.7
JS: This is how he remembered it, but it was not so.  It was so that I went to my aunt.
468
00:45:44.4
CE: Okay.
469
00:45:45.0
JS: Now, what I dont rememberwhen he arrived to my aunt and so only this part I dont remember, but I remember that we went together on the train home to Miskolc.
470
00:45:55.8
CE: Okay.
471
00:45:56.4
JS: And my aunt came, too.
472
00:45:57.8
CE: Okay.
473
00:45:58.5
JS: So she stayed with us.
474
00:45:59.8
CE: And had she lost her whole family?
475
00:46:1.7
JS: Her husband was shot into the Danube [River].
476
00:46:5.4
CE: Okay.
477
00:46:7.5
JS: Because in Budapest people were shot into Danube.
478
00:46:11.5
CE: Okay.
479
00:46:12.2
JS: Yeah.  So she was a widow.  So, the three of us were living in Miskolc together and my father was taking care of the Joint of North Hungary.
480
00:46:29.5
CE: Okay, and thats Jointthats j-o-i-n-t?
481
00:46:32.5
JS: J-o-i-n-t.  That was a American help organization, Joint.
482
00:46:38.2
CE: Okay, and, uh, Jointwas that the Joint distribution committee?
483
00:46:42.3
JS: Yes.
484
00:46:42.8
CE: Okay.
485
00:46:43.4
JS: And he was of North Hungary, taking care of North Hungary.
486
00:46:47.9
CE Okay.
487
00:46:48.9
JS: And what was his duty?  His duty was to go to the railroad and meet everybody who is going through Miskolc home and goingcoming to Miskolc, and also established a hospital in Miskolc for those who came home sick.
488
00:47:9.8
CE: Okay.
489
00:47:10.4
JS: And distributedshe had a group of people who distributed clothes and caps, things like that, to those people who needed it.  Now, he was very strict about it that nobody who was in the group of people who distributed or his family didnt get anything, and this woman (laughs) didnt get anything.
490
00:47:38.2
CE: This woman, the woman who was lost and didnt
491
00:47:40.9
JS: Yes, didnt get anything.  Right.
492
00:47:42.2
CE: (laughs) Okay.
493
00:47:43.1
JS: So, otherwise everybody gotgoteverybody got what they needed.
494
00:47:50.0
CE: Okay.
495
00:47:50.7
JS: But I really didnt need anything because my father alreadythe Russians brought so much, my father had to put a golden piece into the Russians stews because they put that (inaudible) to his foodto his head.  Then he didnt learn to destroy their piece, and they wanted to have golden cups, so they brought their gold, he put on their cups, and so they brought us so much food that we had plenty.
496
00:48:21.7
CE: You had plenty at that point.  And were you back in your old home?
497
00:48:24.7
JS: Yes, and everything was there.
498
00:48:27.4
CE: Everything was there?
499
00:48:28.7
JS: Everything was there because my father had such a beautiful office that the Germans used it, and so they left everything.  They lived in our home, they used his office; everything was there.
500
00:48:43.4
CE: Ah, how wonderful.
501
00:48:44.5
JS: Okay, well.  Oh, but I can tell you that my wedding ring [was] made out from that gold that the Russians brought.
502
00:48:52.1
CE: Really?
503
00:48:52.6
JS: Yes.
504
00:48:53.1
CE: Oh, wow.
505
00:48:53.9
JS: And sobecause theyre notnothing.  Nothing after the war in Hungary.  The money was worthless; everything wasnothing, nothing.  But we had plenty of food and we lived all right after that.
506
00:49:9.3
CE: Were you pretty healthy by that time?
507
00:49:12.9
JS: No, I was very sick, but he brought in physicians andI wasafter a year or so, I was fine.
508
00:49:20.6
CE: Okay.
509
00:49:21.4
JS: Now about my friend.  My friend, she is called Chaga Weiszkopf, but her name was Eva Bleszbergei in Hungary.
510
00:49:31.3
CE: And can you spellits Eva, E-v-a?
511
00:49:33.7
JS: Eva, Eva
512
00:49:34.5
CE: And her last
513
00:49:35.1
JS: E-v-a.
Bleszbergei, B-l-e-s-z-b-e-r-g-e-i.
514
00:49:43.5
CE: Okay.
515
00:49:44.2
JS: But now she is Chaga Weiszkopf in Israel.  Well, anyway, we were small children already together, and we grew up together, and we went to Auschwitz together, and I went to Parschnitz together with her.  But we stopped by another camp which was a much better camp, and I could have stayed there, but I wanted to go with her and so I got to Parschnitz.
516
00:50:17.6
CE: Oh, okay.
517
00:50:18.7
JS: Yes, and I could have
518
00:50:20.1
CE: Because she had to go to the other camp, right?
519
00:50:21.1
JS: Yeah, she had to go to the other camp.  Well, anyway, so sheafter the war she went to Israel, and for ten years I goI went to visit to Israel, and she came to the airport and we missed each other (laughs) because we didnt recognize each other!
520
00:50:43.6
CE: Oh, really!
521
00:50:44.4
JS: Yes, but later on we met and I lived with her for two weeks.
522
00:50:49.0
CE: For two weeks?
Oh, thats wonderful.
523
00:50:51.8
JS: Yes, yes, yes.
524
00:50:53.1
CE: Is she still alive?
525
00:50:53.9
JS: Oh, yes, yes.  She is alive and we speak every two weeks or three weeks on the phone.
526
00:50:59.5
CE: Oh, thats wonderful.
527
00:51:0.7
JS: Very nice, yeah.  She isher daughter is very sick, but she is all right.  Yeah.
528
00:51:6.4
CE: Before we end this tape, just for a moment, could you spell her name now for me?  In Israel now?
529
00:51:12.9
JS: Chaga, C-h-a-g-a.  Chaga
Weiszkopf, W-e-i-s-z-k-o-p-f.
530
00:51:30.7
CE: Okay, and then just before we finish this tape, could you spell your fathers name and then Ill get you to spell your mothers name.  Your father
531
00:51:38.8
JS: Yes.  Mymy fathers name was S-z-a-s-z K-a-r-o-l-y, Karoly.
532
00:51:51.1
CE: Okay, and thats his first name?
533
00:51:52.6
JS: But since he also immigrated to England when we immigrated to America, his name was Charles (inaudible).
534
00:52:1.2
CE: Charles.
535
00:52:2.3
JS: Yes, and my mothers name was Magda, M-a-g-d-a, Rosenberg, R-o-s-e-n-b-e-r-g.
536
00:52:14.4
CE: Okay, thank you.  So I think well stop right now and take a break.
537
00:52:18.1
JS: And I would appreciate if you take out that part, because I should not want that in it.
Given the comments lack of specificity, the interviewer and the interviewee later agreed that the comment would not be redacted.
538
00:52:24.0
CE: Okay, lets
539
00:52:25.4
JS: If you can.
540
00:52:26.0
CE: Lets speak about that when were off tape, okay?
541
00:52:28.2
JS: Okay, fine.
542
00:52:29.0
CE: This is tape two interview with Judith Szentvanyi.  So, Judith, could we start with your life in Hungary after you came back to your hometown with your father?  Could you tell us a little bit more about that time?
543
00:52:48.5
JS: After I got back, I finished high school.
544
00:52:54.0
CE: Okay.
545
00:52:54.8
JS: My father got married.
546
00:52:57.0
CE: He did?
547
00:52:58.1
JS: Yes, and after I finished high school, he sent me down to
Szeged, S-z-e-g-e-d, where I started medical school.
548
00:53:14.0
CE: Oh, so you must have been a good student, right?
549
00:53:17.6
JS: I was a good student, yes.
550
00:53:19.8
CE: Okay, okay.
551
00:53:21.4
JS: And during the first two years, I was in medical school in Szeged, and when I went home to Miskolc, I got married in 1948 to
552
00:53:33.8
CE: Okay, go ahead.
553
00:53:36.3
JS: Andor, A-n-d-o-r,
Szentivanyi, S-z-e-n-t-i-v-a-n-y-i.  And he was in medical school in Debrecen.
554
00:53:49.2
CE: Now how did the two of you meet?
555
00:53:51.0
JS: We knew each other as children.
556
00:53:53.5
CE: You did?  You lived in the same town?
557
00:53:55.3
JS: Yes.
558
00:53:55.8
CE: And, um, could you just briefly tell us his experiences during the Holocaust?
559
00:54:2.1
JS: Ah.  My husband was escaped from the same camp where my father was also, and everybody was killed in that camp.  They both escaped from there, and its a very long story of both of them, how they survived.  My husband was walking in Budapest when he met, uh, [Raoul] Wallenberg.  He saw
Wallenberg as he was approaching a group of people who were taken by the SS.  And he was speaking with perfect German to the SS, saying that they are all Swedish citizens, and he was passing out Swedish passports to them, and
560
00:54:57.4
CE: Wallenberg was.
561
00:54:58.1
JS: Wallenberg.  And stating that there are Swedish houses that he purchased and they belong to those houses.
562
00:55:6.9
CE: Oh, okay.
563
00:55:8.0
JS: My husband walked up to him and asked whether he could be of help to him, and he said yes, he could go to see those people who are hiding and bring them to the Swedish houses.
564
00:55:23.4
CE: Okay.
565
00:55:24.2
JS: And this is what my husband has done.
566
00:55:27.1
CE: Okay.
567
00:55:28.2
JS: Unfortunately, Wallenberg was taken by the Russians and killed.  He saved, in Budapest, several thousand Jews.  And hes still a very big hero and my husband was talking about him a great deal.
568
00:55:49.1
CE: Okay.
569
00:55:50.4
JS: I was married to Andor Szentivanyi for fifty-seven years.  He passed away in 2005.  He was the dean of the medical school USF in the 1980s.  He wasfirst we started out in Chicago
570
00:56:11.2
CE: Now, how did youso you married him in
571
00:56:14.9
JS: I married him in 1948.
572
00:56:17.1
CE: In Hungary.
573
00:56:17.8
JS: In Hungary.
574
00:56:18.6
CE: Yeah.
575
00:56:19.3
JS: We escaped fromduring the Hungarian revolution in 1956, we (inaudible) from Hungary
576
00:56:28.7
CE: Oh, okay.
577
00:56:30.0
JS: And left everything behind us, and only if somebody goes through what I went through is able to leave everything behind her, is able to walk out, leave out with my six-year-old son through forest through Austria.
578
00:56:50.5
CE: Wow.
579
00:56:51.1
JS: And we arrived to Austria and contacted my uncle, who was the brother of my mother, and lived here in America.
580
00:57:2.1
CE: So, say that again for me?
581
00:57:5.3
JS: When we arrived to Austria, we arrived to Viennawe took everything
582
00:57:9.6
CE: Vienna, okay.
583
00:57:10.9
JS: and I contacted my uncle who lived here in America.
584
00:57:15.4
CE: Okay
585
00:57:16.1
JS: He was the half-brother of my mother.
586
00:57:18.5
CE: The half brother of your mother.  Mm-hm, okay.
587
00:57:21.5
JS: Yes.  He sent me money, and also we came then with help toto (inaudible) first and through (inaudible) boat to New Jersey.  Camp Kilmer.
588
00:57:40.7
CE: Camp Kilmer?  K-i-l
589
00:57:43.7
JS: Yeah, K-i-l-m-e-r.
590
00:57:44.9
CE: e-r?  Mm-hm.
591
00:57:46.0
JS: And through Camp Kilmer we came to Chicago, where my uncle lived.
592
00:57:50.4
CE: And this was you and your husband?
593
00:57:52.0
JS: Yes.
594
00:57:53.2
CE: Traveling together.
595
00:57:53.6
JS: And my child.
596
00:57:55.1
CE: And your child?
597
00:57:55.4
JS: Yes.
598
00:57:55.4
CE: Your six-year-old child.
599
00:57:56.7
JS: And in Chicago my husband was Rockefeller fellowshipstarted at University of Chicago, and I started an internship without knowing any English.
600
00:58:9.2
CE: Wow, so heyou just came to Chicago, you didnt know anybody but your uncle
601
00:58:14.6
JS: My uncle.  Yes.
602
00:58:15.8
CE: And then youhe was able to get this position.
603
00:58:19.4
JS: Well, he had Rockefeller fellowship.
604
00:58:22.3
CE: Okay.
605
00:58:22.8
JS: He had Rockefeller fellowship at University of Chicago.
606
00:58:26.8
CE: Wow.
607
00:58:27.2
JS: Yes, because by that time he was already known.
608
00:58:31.7
CE: Okay.  Okay.
609
00:58:33.3
JS: Yes.  And I started my internship in a very bad poor hospital close to the University of Chicago and did a rotating internship there; and meantime the chief of my husband wanted to go to Denver, Colorado, and he took my husband with him.
610
00:58:57.0
CE: Okay, and you went, too?
611
00:58:58.9
JS: And I went there, yes.
612
00:59:0.1
CE: To Denver?  Uh-huh.
613
00:59:1.4
JS: And we got to Denver, which was a beautiful city at that time, and my husband worked with him and I did my further fellowship at a Jewish asthmatic childrens home with Dr. Samuel Bukantz, B-u-k-a-n-t-z, and I want to tell you about him something later.
614
00:59:25.5
CE: Okay.
615
00:59:26.4
JS: And after that I did a residency at the University of Colorado in dermatology and started practicing in Aurora, A-u-rA-u-r-a-r-a [sic], Aurora.
616
00:59:46.6
CE: Aurora.
617
00:59:47.4
JS: Colorado, mm-hm.
618
00:59:48.6
CE: Colorado.  Okay.
619
00:59:49.1
JS: But I practice only nine months when my husband got the chairmanship in Omaha, Nebraska.
620
00:59:56.0
CE: Oh, my!  Now, did you have your second child by then?
621
00:59:59.2
JS: No.
622
01:00:0.0
CE: No, not yet?  Okay.
623
01:00:1.2
JS: No.  We moved to Omaha, Nebraska.  Yes, yes, in DenverDenver I had my second child, yes.
624
01:00:11.4
CE: Okay.  So you were having a child while you had this position and
625
01:00:14.5
JS: Yes, yes.  I had Jim in Denver, Colorado, and we moved to Omaha, Nebraska, but I didnt work in Omaha.  I worked in Council Bluffs, Iowa, which is at the boarder of Nebraska.  Every day I went with a car over to Iowa and worked with a group of sixteen physicians in dermatology.  I was the dermatologist and they were other specialties.  I was very happy there, very good group, and anyway the (inaudible) people were good patients and nice people and I was very happy.  Then a friend of his came to visit us here from Florida and said to my husband that a medical school is about to happen and would he come down here and the three of them, Dr. Smith, Dr. Fisher, and he would start a medical school here.
626
01:01:22.1
CE: Oh, okay.
627
01:01:23.3
JS: I was very upset about the situation, because in Florida you have to have new licensenew examination, new license.  So, I was very upset about it, and anyway I didnt likeI didnt like that at all.  I came to see it because Omaha is much more beautiful, Denver is more beautiful, and anyway I had to make a new examination.
628
01:01:50.0
CE: Oh, so you had toand he did, too?
629
01:01:52.3
JS: Starting from anatomy.  Starting from anatomy.  Starting from anatomyall over.
630
01:01:58.4
CE: Okay.  Okay.
631
01:01:59.2
JS: And I did pass it.  I didnt pass it.  So my husband said in case I cannot pass it, hes not coming.
632
01:02:8.5
CE: Now, he had to take a new examination, too
633
01:02:10.7
JS: No, because he was not practicing, he was always in research.
634
01:02:14.3
CE: Okay.
635
01:02:14.8
JS: So, I said, I am not going.  So he said he is not going.  So, I tried a second time and I passed.
636
01:02:25.7
CE: You passed.  Did you study a whole lot for it?
637
01:02:28.4
JS: Yes!  As you can imagine, you have to start from anatomy to physiologyeverything again.
638
01:02:35.0
CE: Yes, yes.
639
01:02:35.6
JS: And in Denver I did it from basic science everything you had to do.  So I had enough, and so I started to practice on Florida Avenue [Tampa, Florida] and it went all right.  Until ninety-six [1996] I practiced here in Tampadermatologythen I got the lung cancer.
640
01:03:4.0
CE: You got lung cancer?
641
01:03:5.6
JS: Yes.
642
01:03:6.2
CE: Ah.  Were you a smoker?
643
01:03:7.2
JS: Yes.
644
01:03:7.9
CE: You were
645
01:03:8.7
JS: Forty years.
646
01:03:9.6
CE: Forty years?
647
01:03:10.2
JS: Yes, I got lung cancer, and after the lung cancer I got tuberculosis in my left foot and so I had to stop working and so that is what I am doing.  I am just retired.
648
01:03:26.7
CE: So youve been retired since 1996?
649
01:03:29.5
JS: Ninety-six [1996], yes.  And that was very traumatic, but I am a survivor because I survived this and I survived was something more.
650
01:03:41.7
CE: Yeah.
651
01:03:42.4
JS: And we had a very small little apartment (inaudible) Hungary: a small room and a bathroom, nothing else.  And in the bathroom there was gas, gas, we think in the bathtub.  And my husband was home, and I dont know why but I left the roomthe door open and he just heard a funny soundI was under the water because there was a gas poisoning, carbon monoxide poisoning, in the room and he took me out from the bathtub.  So I survived three times.
652
01:04:27.6
CE: Yes, I think so.
653
01:04:29.5
JS: So, I survived lung cancer, I survived Holocaust, I survived also this bathtub.  If he wouldnt be home I would have suffocated in the bathtub.
654
01:04:42.5
CE: Okay.  Okay, wow.  Wow.  Its amazing.
655
01:04:49.0
JS: Thats my story.
656
01:04:50.4
CE: Youre like a cat with nine lives.
657
01:04:52.1
JS: I am like a cat with nine lives.
658
01:04:55.3
CE: Yeah, yeah.  So you come to Florida
659
01:05:0.3
JS: We came to Florida
660
01:05:3.2
CE: What year was that, do you remember?
661
01:05:5.1
JS: We came to Florida in sixty-nine [1969].  Andor came in sixty-nine [1969] and I came in seventy [1970], because I had to sell our house in Omaha.  We had a beautiful house in Omaha and it was $33,000the most beautiful house you can imagineand I had difficulties to sell it.  It took me a year.
662
01:05:27.9
CE: So, let me ask you a few more questions before your son joins us.  Youve been working with the Holocaust Museum and you tell your story there?
663
01:05:40.5
JS: Yes.  Before I was driving and I drove there and I was quite there frequently telling my story.  But lately this is too long drive for me and I told them I am not driving anymore, so when they want me they send someone for me.
664
01:06:1.1
CE: Okay, okay.  Have you always told your story?  Has it been something youve told, or was there a time you didnt talk about this experience?
665
01:06:11.8
JS: Since, you know, there was a long time when nobody asked for my experience.  In Hungary it was nothing to speak about.
666
01:06:21.5
CE: No onepeople didnt speak about it?
667
01:06:23.7
JS: No.
668
01:06:24.1
CE: Did you feel like you couldnt speak about it?
669
01:06:27.7
JS: I never felt anywayI would always speak about it if they would ask me, but nobody asked me because in Hungary there were other people who werehad this experience even worse than me.  Actually, when my niece read this, she said, This is nothing.
670
01:06:49.9
CE: Nothing compared to other peoples experiences?
671
01:06:53.0
JS: Thats right.
672
01:06:53.5
CE: You havent told everything, though.
673
01:06:55.2
JS: (laughs)
674
01:06:56.0
CE: So, she doesnt knowit wasnt nothing to you, right?
675
01:06:59.4
JS: She said nothing because what happened to her at (inaudible) she went with her mother, she would be not alive.  Where she went with her mother was boat.
676
01:07:10.0
CE: Oh, okay.
677
01:07:11.1
JS: And they went to Germany so she survived with her mother.
678
01:07:14.2
CE: So when did people start getting interested in hearing your story, do you think?
679
01:07:22.1
JS: I think I started to go to the museum to tell it about maybe ten years ago.
680
01:07:30.6
CE: Ten years ago?
681
01:07:31.4
JS: I think so.  Actually, not everybodys interested in the talk, you know that.  And some people deny it.
682
01:07:39.7
CE: Yeah.  And do youdoes it help you to tell your story?
683
01:07:45.4
JS: No.  It doesntI can tell it without too much emotion anymore.
684
01:07:51.9
CE: And is that your preference, to tell itto not get emotional?
685
01:07:55.8
JS: Yes.  Yes.  And its a necessity.
686
01:07:59.2
CE: Its a necessity?
687
01:08:0.4
JS: Yeah.
688
01:08:0.9
CE: Okay, cause that would make you feel bad, is that right?
689
01:08:5.5
JS: I would mefeel me bad not to tell it.
690
01:08:9.7
CE: It wouldsay that again?
691
01:08:11.0
JS: I would feel bad not to tell it.
692
01:08:12.8
CE: Youd feel bad not to tell it.
693
01:08:14.1
JS: Thats right.
694
01:08:14.9
CE: Okay.
695
01:08:15.6
JS: As long we can tell, we should tell.  And then there are some people who went through it but not talkcannot tell it.
696
01:08:26.3
CE: Cannot tell it, yeah.  So, you can tell it, and thatsthats good.
697
01:08:30.6
JS: I know I can tell it, so I tell as long as I can.
698
01:08:33.3
CE: Does it bothare youafter you tell it, does itdo you then feel better or do youdoes it bother you?  Does it bring back the memories?
699
01:08:43.3
JS: No.
700
01:08:43.9
CE: It doesnt have any impact on you
701
01:08:45.2
JS: No.
702
01:08:45.6
CE: to tell it?
703
01:08:46.3
JS: Not anymore.
704
01:08:47.6
CE: Did it initially?
705
01:08:49.2
JS: No, I dont think so.
706
01:08:51.0
CE: No?
707
01:08:51.7
JS: I just think its necessary to tell about it, and I do it.
708
01:08:58.0
CE: Okay, okay.  Thats wonderful.  We appreciate your telling it.
709
01:09:2.1
JS: Thank you.
710
01:09:2.9
CE: Thank you.  Is there anything else that you would like to say, any message that you would like to leave for the people who will be watching this?
711
01:09:12.0
JS: Please dont forget it.
712
01:09:13.4
CE: Please dont forget it, yeah.
713
01:09:15.3
JS: I am so afraid that it will be forgotten, because I dont think too much about the First World War.  I would not expect the generations to be coming to think about the Second World War.
714
01:09:31.2
CE: Do you meet with other survivors?
715
01:09:36.5
JS: Yes.  We have meetings with survivors.  This is where your friend gave to
716
01:09:43.3
CE: Yes, Tori?
717
01:09:43.8
JS: Yeah.
718
01:09:44.5
CE: And is that helpful to you?
719
01:09:47.6
JS: No.
720
01:09:49.1
CE: No?
721
01:09:49.8
JS: Because I think only they come because they need helpthey are very poor people and they need help.  I just go because I get invitation, (inaudible) (laughs).
722
01:10:2.5
CE: Just something to do?
723
01:10:4.0
JS: (laughs) Yeah, its something to do.
724
01:10:5.7
CE: So you dont feel any special connection to other survivors?
725
01:10:10.6
JS: No, no.  Not positive, not negative, nothing.
726
01:10:14.3
CE: Okay.  Anything else you want to tell us?
727
01:10:18.7
JS: Nothing.
728
01:10:19.3
CE: Well, let me just ask you, before your sonand then well get your son to join us.  Did youare these stories that you shared with your family, with your children, or?
729
01:10:29.3
JS: The children dont like to hear about it.
730
01:10:31.6
CE: They dont like to?
731
01:10:32.2
JS: No, they dont.  I think they feel guilty.
732
01:10:35.2
CE: Why do they feel guilty?
733
01:10:37.2
JS: I dont know, but they dont like to hear about it.
734
01:10:39.6
CE: Did you and your husband talk about it?
735
01:10:42.7
JS: Yes.  My husband was very upset until his death that he doesnt have any pictures about his parents, that they both were goingwere going to the gas chamber.  And he never survived it, he never survived it.  He was really very sick about it; he never survived the problem.
736
01:11:5.6
CE: So it was always a problem for him.
737
01:11:9.0
JS: Yes.
738
01:11:9.5
CE: So you have two sons
739
01:11:11.3
JS: Yes.
740
01:11:12.1
CE: And your older son, what is his name?
741
01:11:14.2
JS: Peter.
742
01:11:14.7
CE: Peter?  And hes married?
743
01:11:16.7
JS: No.
744
01:11:17.5
CE: No?  So he doesnt have any children?
745
01:11:20.1
JS: No.
746
01:11:20.7
CE: So you have no grandchildren?
747
01:11:21.8
JS: No.
748
01:11:22.4
CE: Oh.  Okay, all right.  And you dont have other family, right?
749
01:11:29.2
JS: No, I have these two children, thats all.
750
01:11:32.2
CE: Thats it, and I
751
01:11:33.9
JS: Now, my brother from the second marriage is coming next week
752
01:11:38.8
CE: Thats right!
753
01:11:39.7
JS: to visit me from England.
754
01:11:40.9
CE: Yeah.
755
01:11:41.6
JS: Yes, with his British wife.  Yes.
756
01:11:44.1
CE: And yourwhen you came to the United States, where did your father go?
757
01:11:48.1
JS: Well, the thing was, we wanted to bring him here, and then it came out that sometimes my father first was a physician and then he became a dentist.  He cannot become a dentist here and he practices dentistry for thirty-two years.  So my uncle had a friend who helped him out and he went to England.  And he had to retake examination and at fifty-eight years, he started to practice dentistry in England, and he made a very good practice because many Hungarians knew him and many are in England.  And now his sonmy brother, who is the same age as my son, is practicing dentistry in England, and he has three children.  One is a physician, one is a dentist, and one is (inaudible).
758
01:12:46.4
CE: Okay, okay.
759
01:12:47.6
JS: So the rest of the family is in England.  And they are all British with British accents and my children are with American accents.
760
01:12:57.9
CE: Okay.  Now, have you been back to Hungary?
761
01:13:1.1
JS: Yes, I was back several times.
762
01:13:4.0
CE: Several times?  And what was your experience when you went back?
763
01:13:6.7
JS: Last time when I was there I had difficulties with transportation, because there are very fast undergrounds.  The steps are very fast for me already and I had difficulties.  Unless I rode the taxi I had difficulties to go from one place to another.
764
01:13:34.2
CE: Does it still feel like your home in any way?
765
01:13:38.5
JS: No, I feel like a visitor.  But they know right away, although I speak Hungarian all the time because with my husband I always spoke Hungarian, yeah?  They know right away that I am not living there.
766
01:13:51.9
CE: They do?
767
01:13:52.5
JS: Yes.
768
01:13:53.1
CE: From the accent?
769
01:13:54.1
JS: No, not accent, from thefrom thehow it sounds.  Not accent.
770
01:14:4.2
CE: How it sounds.  The tone or
771
01:14:8.0
JS: Tone, yeah.  Yeah.  They know right away.  Its very funny because we speak Hungarian all the time.  We stillas soon as you start to speak, they know you are not living there.
772
01:14:21.6
CE: And do youis it your sense that theres still anti-Semitism in Hungary?
773
01:14:27.2
JS: In Hungary there is very bad anti-Semitism.  First they hid Gypsies and they killed Gypsies in Hungary today, and then come the Jews.  Obvious if the financial situation is bad, then comes the hate, and the financial situation is bad today.  But also, those immigrant Hungarians who are here are very anti-Semitic.
774
01:14:58.5
CE: The ones that are here?
775
01:14:59.6
JS: The ones who are here.
776
01:15:0.9
CE: The non-Jews youre talking about, the Hungarian
777
01:15:4.8
JS: The Hungarian non-Jews, yeah.
778
01:15:8.3
CE: So it continues.
779
01:15:9.7
JS: Yeah, and let me tell you a very nice thing, and I would like if you not tape that.
780
01:15:15.9
CE: Well, why dont you hold that story anddont forget it.
781
01:15:19.9
JS: (laughs) I dont forget it.
782
01:15:21.6
CE: Dont forget it, okay.  Do you experience anti-Semitism here, now, in the United States?
783
01:15:30.4
JS: Not personally, but I am told that there is very significant anti-Semitism.
784
01:15:37.2
CE: Okay, all right.  Well, lets end on a positive note.
785
01:15:41.4
JS: Also, among non-Jews there is anti-Semitism.
786
01:15:44.9
CE: Among the non-Jews.
787
01:15:46.2
JS: Yes.
788
01:15:46.8
CE: Is the anti-Semitism, okay.
789
01:15:48.3
JS: But not like in HungarI go to Hungarians because every Hungarian is anti-Semitic.
790
01:15:54.5
CE: Okay, but whatjust people who were born in this country
791
01:16:0.2
JS: (laughs) Well, you see, these are fortunate because sometimes Jewish people help the anti-Semitism.  This is a very complicated thing.
792
01:16:11.5
CE: It is, isnt it?
793
01:16:12.8
JS: Some of these Hungarian ladies come out from Hungary for work.  They arrive in New York, and some very religious Jews are very rich in New York, in Brooklyn, and they employ these Hungarian girls.  And as I hearI dont know whether its true or not, but they are not handling these girls very nicely.  And that leads us to anti-Semitism.  Whether it is true or not, I dont know, but this is what I am told.
794
01:16:50.8
CE: So howdo you think you lived a happy life?  Would you care to
795
01:16:57.4
JS: In America?
796
01:16:58.2
CE: Yeah.
797
01:16:58.7
JS: Until my husband wasnt alive, I was happy.  Im not so happy now that I am alone, you know?
798
01:17:4.3
CE: Thats hard, isnt it?
799
01:17:6.1
JS: Yeah.
800
01:17:6.9
CE: Yeah, yeah.
801
01:17:8.0
JS: I try to get myself busy with all kinds of things, but I am not so happy.
802
01:17:14.3
CE: Yeah, its hard when you dont have your companion.
803
01:17:16.7
JS: Oh, yes, and fifty-seven years is a long time.
804
01:17:20.4
CE: It is a very long time.
805
01:17:22.4
JS: Although he was very sick for a very long timeit was time for him to go.
806
01:17:28.5
CE: Is there anything else you would like to tell us on this tape?
807
01:17:35.8
JS: No, I have absolutely nothing
808
01:17:37.7
CE: So what can we learn about survival from you?  Im always interested in learning how to deal with trauma and loss and just how to be a survivor like you are.
809
01:17:49.7
JS: I think thats very individual how somebody can survive.  I dont thinkthis depends on the personsome people have tendency to get melancholic or depressedbut this is very individual, you know?  And some people just survive.  I survived lots of things and thats how it is, you know?  I know I dont have too much to go and I try to do my bestI try to enjoy myself until I am [not] alive.
810
01:18:25.4
CE: Okay.  Well, you seem to be doing a very good job of it.
811
01:18:29.3
JS: Thank you.
812
01:18:30.4
CE: Im very glad to have met you.
813
01:18:32.1
JS: Thank you.
814
01:18:33.3
CE: And to be part of this tape and hear your story.
815
01:18:37.4
JS: The sad situation is that since my husband passed awayvery few people even take the phone on me.
816
01:18:44.2
CE: Take the phone?
817
01:18:45.6
JS: Take the phoneespecially the USF people are not very nice to me.
818
01:18:53.2
CE: Thats too bad.  Im sorry to hear that part.
819
01:18:55.6
JS: Well, this is how it is.
820
01:18:57.1
CE: Yes, it does work that way, doesnt it?
821
01:18:58.9
JS: (laughs)
822
01:19:0.7
CE: Well, I hope that our paths cross again.
823
01:19:3.1
JS: (laughs)
824
01:19:4.1
CE: I do.
825
01:19:5.0
JS: Well, this is how it is, you know.
826
01:19:7.5
CE: Thank you very much for sharing your story with us.
827
01:19:10.3
JS: Thank you.
828
01:19:11.0
CE: Thank you.  So we can break here and then Ed, your son.
829
01:19:11.0
CE: This is part two of tape two, interview of Judith Szentivanyi, and we now have Edward, her son, with us.  Edward would you tell us your name and spell it?
830
01:19:23.4
ES: ItsI anglicized it from Szentivanyi to Saint-Ivan.
831
01:19:28.4
CE: Okay.
832
01:19:29.2
ES: Saint is spelled out.
833
01:19:30.1
CE: And how do you spell Saint?
834
01:19:31.6
ES: S-a-i-n-t, with a hyphen.
835
01:19:34.8
CE: Okay, and Ivan is
836
01:19:36.8
ES: Yeah.
837
01:19:37.4
CE: I-v-a-n?
838
01:19:38.2
ES: Its the anglicized, so its not really changing, its just
839
01:19:42.0
CE: So its the same name, but anglicized.
840
01:19:45.1
ES: Thats right.
841
01:19:45.7
CE: Okay, and why did you do that?
842
01:19:47.7
ES: Its much simpler.  And I wrote in a number of newspapers and I didnt want people to associate my articles with Dad, who was at that time a vice-president at USF.  Even though I didnt go to USF I had articles in the Oracle, and soI didnt want people to connect the two things.
843
01:20:11.2
CE: Okay, and could you tell us just a little bit of your history?  Like what youve been doing and
844
01:20:16.6
ES: Yeah, I went to Tampa Catholic High School, and at seventeen I realized I couldnt keep up with the homework and I took the GED and went to college.
845
01:20:28.8
CE: Okay.
846
01:20:29.7
ES: I went to Saint Leo College and finished a criminology degree.
847
01:20:34.8
CE: Criminology.  I have a sociology degree.
848
01:20:37.2
ES: Well, were similar.
849
01:20:38.7
CE: Were cousins, yes.  Yes.  What year were you born?
850
01:20:42.8
ES: Nineteen sixty-five.
851
01:20:44.3
CE: Nineteen sixty-five.  So youre how old right now?
852
01:20:47.4
ES: Uh, forty-five in four weeks.
853
01:20:49.2
CE: Forty-five in four weeks, okay.  Now, have you always known about your parents past?
854
01:20:57.0
ES: Yes.  Always.
855
01:20:57.7
CE: So it was something that was talked about in the house?
856
01:21:0.7
ES: Once in a while.
857
01:21:1.5
CE: Once in a while?
858
01:21:2.2
ES: Yeah.
859
01:21:2.6
CE: And how did you respond to their stories?
860
01:21:5.5
ES: I didnt think a lot about it until I started to research Holocaust literature on my own, and thats when I started to think more about it.  And I saw the movie Fateless and I saw the movie about Raoul Wallenberg that was a television movie andyeah, I didnt think as much about it until I started to see other people interested in it.
Fateless is a film directed by Lajos Koltai in 2005, based on the semi-autobiographical novel of the same title by the Nobel Prize-winner Imre Kertsz, who wrote the screenplay. The TV movie about Wallenberg is Wallenberg: A Heros Story, which aired in 1985.
861
01:21:29.2
CE: And then did you have more conversations with your parents?
862
01:21:32.5
ES: Once in a while.
863
01:21:33.0
CE: Once in a while?  Do you have a lot of interest in it now?
864
01:21:36.3
ES: Some.  Some.
865
01:21:38.1
CE: Some.
866
01:21:38.7
ES: I think Fateless was excellentthe movie.
867
01:21:41.1
CE: I have not seen that.
868
01:21:41.7
ES: Well, its, in my opinion, one of the greatest movies Ive ever seen.  I have not read the book so I cannot opinionate about the book, but Ive seen the movie and I was absolutely blown away.  It was just brilliant.
869
01:21:56.4
CE: Do you think the Holocaust experiences impacted your parents later lives?
870
01:22:3.0
ES: Yes.  Yes.
871
01:22:3.5
CE: Could you talk a little about how?
872
01:22:5.3
ES: Well, I think they were very disappointed that the West didnt do more, you know.
873
01:22:11.7
CE: Any other way?  Did it impact the kinds of parents they were?
874
01:22:18.7
ES: No.
875
01:22:19.2
CE: No, you dont think so?
876
01:22:20.7
ES: I think the West could have done more, you know?  They didnt care too much.
877
01:22:25.4
CE: Is there anything else you would like to say about your experiences?
878
01:22:30.9
ES: Beside Fateless and the television movie about Raoul Wallenberg, one other thing.  My dad had a birthday and I had to go to Borders to find him something, and theres this series, The American Experience, and they did an excellent piece and it had to do with thisI forget if its his parents, but he lived in the United States and his relatives were in France and they continuously tried to immigrate to the U.S. and the State Department continuously wouldnt let them, and finally in the end they died.  And it was an excellentmy point is there has been some excellent work done in this area, excellent.
879
01:23:13.7
CE: So your interest seems to be more of a political nature than a personal nature.
880
01:23:18.2
ES: Both.
881
01:23:18.8
CE: Both.
882
01:23:19.5
ES: Dad knew Raoul Wallenberg personally.
883
01:23:22.3
CE: Thats exciting, isnt it?
884
01:23:24.2
ES: And to this day, we dont know what happened.  I think the final insult to his memory is that a man in Sweden did a book and accused a Hungarian Jew of betraying Wallenberg.
885
01:23:39.5
CE: I read about that.
886
01:23:40.2
ES: The final insult, you know.
887
01:23:43.2
CE: So what kind of work have you done since you graduated college?
888
01:23:48.4
ES: Work in a sense of jobs, very little.  But I do a lot of short stories and
889
01:23:55.6
CE: Oh, so youre a writer.  I heard you say you had written for the Oracle.
890
01:24:0.7
ES: Yes.
891
01:24:1.3
CE: So what kind of writer are you?
892
01:24:2.7
ES: I wrote a collection of short fiction that was published.
893
01:24:6.8
CE: Oh, wonderful.  I would love to see some of it.
894
01:24:10.1
ES: Sure.  But thats the only thing Ive done thats well known.  Everything elseIve interviewed people in newspapers, but that was very little newspapers and very little interviews, nothing like the [Tampa] Tribune.  Were talking micro-newspapers where I wrote.
895
01:24:28.2
CE: Would you like to be a writer?  Would you like to have a profession to write?
896
01:24:31.8
ES: Im working on it.  (laughs)
897
01:24:33.1
CE: So you continue to work on that.  So what do you think about your mom telling her story?  Do you
898
01:24:39.9
ES: Im very happy she told her story.  I think that in the nineteenI want to mention somethingthis might seem a little off subject, but
899
01:24:49.6
CE: Thats okay.
900
01:24:50.1
ES: In the 1980s Volkswagen had an excellent campaign for cars, and they would feature people like Kurt Vonnegut and Jarvik.  It was really racy and I thought this is reallyI gotta get a Volkswagen; this is really incredible.  It didnt come out until the year 2000 that Volkswagen did not pay Holocaust reparations, and its an outrage.  Until the year 2000, they wouldnt pay Holocauyou wouldnt think that a company like Volkswagen, which has Kurt Vonnegut and Jarvik and some of these other spokesmen and is geared towards the younger generation, that such a company could do something so outrageous, to not pay reparations until the year 2000.  Its unbelievable.  It really is.
901
01:25:46.6
CE: Do you feel any connection to Hungary?
902
01:25:48.6
ES: I do.
903
01:25:49.8
CE: You do?
904
01:25:50.5
ES: I do.  I speak the language very well.
905
01:25:52.5
CE: Do you?
906
01:25:53.0
JS: Oh, he speaks very good
907
01:25:54.4
CE: So you learned from your parents?
908
01:25:55.5
ES: Yeah.  And that was one of the reasons why the movie Fateless really did appeal to me.  Whereas the television movie with Wallenberg I didnt see any Hungarian dialogue, Fateless had some, and I could relate more to that.  Because I know it well enough that I didnt have to wait for English subtitles, and so it made it more believable that you actually had Hungarian language and the Hungarian part of the Holocaust as opposed to just the Germans.
909
01:26:27.5
CE: Do you think that part of the Holocaust gets neglected?
910
01:26:30.4
ES: It does.  It does.  I think a lot of Americans dont understand these things.  One of my neighbors gave some pork to my mom when my father died and the neighbors said, I didnt even think theyre Jewish, because theyre from Hungary.  So, in other words, some people dont realize that there are Hungarian Jews.  They think theres Hungarians and theres Jews, not that theres Hungarian Jews.
911
01:26:59.2
CE: Right.
912
01:27:0.1
ES: (laughs) But there were.  There were.
913
01:27:2.1
CE: Yeah.  Do you have anything youd like to say to your mother to have on tape?  No?  Do you have anything youd like to say to your son?
914
01:27:9.3
JS: No, nothing.
915
01:27:11.4
CE: Nothing.  I guess you get to say
916
01:27:12.5
JS: I hope one day he has a job, a good job.  (laughs)
917
01:27:15.3
CE: (laughs) Okay, anything else the two of you would like to say?  Anything you want to talk about?
918
01:27:22.2
ES: I would just say that the German industrial institution should be absolutely ashamed that they didnt want to pay reparations before the year 2000, that they would not pay reparations and that a company such as the Mengele Company could exist in Germany for years and years and years.  You could see the name Mengele
919
01:27:49.7
JS: Thats the
920
01:27:50.9
ES: What would Americans say if the Ted Bundy company opened up in Tampa?  Bundy Incorporated?  Its an outrage that Josef Mengele lived in his own hometown under his own name after the war and that they didnt do more to bring this man to justice.
921
01:28:13.2
JS: Thats true.
922
01:28:15.7
CE: So you feel the same way?
923
01:28:17.6
JS: Yeah.
924
01:28:18.6
ES: He lived a good life.
925
01:28:22.2
CE: Do you have any message that you would like to send to the next generation of people who might be watching this?
926
01:28:30.1
ES: No.
927
01:28:30.6
JS: No.
928
01:28:31.1
CE: Okay, anything else?
929
01:28:33.5
JS: Thats it.
930
01:28:35.5
CE: Thank you very much for participating in this
931
01:28:37.3
JS: (inaudible)
932
01:28:38.2
ES: My pleasure.
933
01:28:38.8
CE: And Im sure your mother appreciates it.
934
01:28:41.3
ES: Thank you.
935
01:28:42.1
JS: When you get home be sure I (Hungarian).
936
01:28:44.6
ES: Good.


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Szentivanyi, Judith,
1928-
245
Judith Szentivanyi and Edward Saint-Ivan oral history interview
h [electronic resource] /
interviewed by Carolyn Ellis.
260
Tampa, Fla. :
University of South Florida Tampa Library,
2010.
300
1 sound file (89 min.) :
digital, MPEG4 file +
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490
Holocaust survivors oral history project
5 FTS
518
Interview conducted March 11, 2010.
FTS
520
Oral history interview with Holocaust survivor Judith Szentivanyi. Szentivanyi was born in Miskolc, Hungary, in 1928. Conditions for Jews in her city remained stable from 1939 until March 1944, when the Germans invaded. That summer, Szentivanyi and her mother and sister were taken to a local brick factory, where they were detained for several days before being taken on a train to Auschwitz. At that point her mother and sister were taken away to the gas chambers, while Szentivanyi was taken to the Plaszow work camp. In January 1945 Plaszow was closed and the prisoners returned to Auschwitz. This time Szentivanyi was there for several months before being taken to Parschnitz, a sub-camp of Gross-Rosen, where she worked in the AEG factory. After being liberated by the Russians, Szentivanyi returned to Hungary, where she was reunited with her father and her aunt. She and her husband, Andor Szentivanyi, were married in 1948. They left Hungary in 1956 and came to the United States, where both worked in the medical field. In 1969 they came to Tampa, where her husband had been offered a position with the USF College of Medicine; he eventually became the college's dean. Szentivanyi retired in 1996 and frequently speaks about her experiences in the Holocaust. Her son, Edward Saint-Ivan, also participates in this interview.
600
Szentivanyi, Judith,
1928-
Saint-Ivan, Edward.
2 610
Auschwitz (Concentration camp)
Paszw (Concentration camp)
Parschnitz (Concentration camp)
650
Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)
z Hungary
v Personal narratives.
Holocaust, Jewish (1939-1945)
Personal narratives.
Holocaust survivors
Interviews.
Holocaust survivors
Florida.
Genocide.
Crimes against humanity.
7 655
Oral history.
local
Online audio.
local
700
Ellis, Carolyn,
1950-
710
Florida Holocaust Museum.
University of South Florida Libraries.
Holocaust & Genocide Studies Center.
University of South Florida.
Library.
Special & Digital Collections.
Oral History Program.
730
Holocaust & genocide studies oral history projects.
830
Holocaust survivors oral history project.
4 856
u http://digital.lib.usf.edu/?f60.23
y USF ONLINE ACCESS
FTS
951
10
SFU01:002345827;
FTS