USF Libraries
USF Digital Collections

Brian Smith

CLICK HERE FOR STREAMING AUDIO ( Related URL )
MISSING IMAGE

Material Information

Title:
Brian Smith
Series Title:
West Central Florida land use oral history project
Physical Description:
1 sound file ( 79 min.) : digital, MPEG4 file + ;
Language:
English
Creator:
Smith, Brian, 1942-
Mansfield, Bill
University of South Florida Libraries -- Florida Studies Center. -- Oral History Program
University of South Florida -- Tampa Library
Publisher:
University of South Florida Tampa Library
Place of Publication:
Tampa, Fla
Publication Date:

Subjects

Subjects / Keywords:
Regional planning -- Florida -- Pinellas County   ( lcsh )
Public spaces -- Florida -- Pinellas County   ( lcsh )
Genre:
Oral history   ( local )
Online audio   ( local )
Oral history.   ( local )
Online audio.   ( local )
interview   ( marcgt )

Notes

Summary:
Brian Smith, a county planner for Pinellas County Florida since 1970 and director of the Pinellas County Metropolitan Planning Organization, discusses his county planning experiences. He addresses issues of county and state politics, environmental land, sustainable planning, concurrency in planning, taxation, citizen participation, the interests of developers, and the process of county planning. He also discusses the Pinellas Trail, its effect on the county's development, and similar initiatives.
Venue:
Interview conducted October 5, 2006, in Tampa, Fla.
System Details:
Mode of access: World Wide Web.
System Details:
Streaming audio.
Statement of Responsibility:
interviewed by William Mansfield.

Record Information

Source Institution:
University of South Florida Library
Holding Location:
University of South Florida
Rights Management:
All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
aleph - 028708288
oclc - 206910295
usfldc doi - W34-00001
usfldc handle - w34.1
System ID:
SFS0022514:00001


This item is only available as the following downloads:


Full Text
xml version 1.0 encoding UTF-8 standalone no
record xmlns http:www.loc.govMARC21slim xmlns:xsi http:www.w3.org2001XMLSchema-instance xsi:schemaLocation http:www.loc.govstandardsmarcxmlschemaMARC21slim.xsd
leader nim 2200433Ia 4500
controlfield tag 001 028708288
005 20140207152311.0
006 m h
m d
007 sz zunnnnnzned
cr nna||||||||
008 080225s2006 fluuunn sd t n eng d
datafield ind1 8 ind2 024
subfield code a W34-00001
0 033
20061005
b 3934
c T3
035
(OCoLC)206910295
040
FHM
FHM
090
HD211.F6
1 100
Smith, Brian,
d 1942-
245
Brian Smith
h [electronic resource] /
interviewed by William Mansfield.
260
Tampa, Fla. :
University of South Florida Tampa Library,
2006.
300
1 sound file ( 79 min.) :
digital, MPEG4 file +
e 1 transcript (digital, PDF file)
306
011900
440
West Central Florida land use oral history project
5 FTS
520
Brian Smith, a county planner for Pinellas County Florida since 1970 and director of the Pinellas County Metropolitan Planning Organization, discusses his county planning experiences. He addresses issues of county and state politics, environmental land, sustainable planning, concurrency in planning, taxation, citizen participation, the interests of developers, and the process of county planning. He also discusses the Pinellas Trail, its effect on the county's development, and similar initiatives.
518
Interview conducted October 5, 2006, in Tampa, Fla.
FTS
538
Mode of access: World Wide Web.
FTS
Streaming audio.
FTS
600
Smith, Brian,
1942-
650
Regional planning
z Florida
Pinellas County.
Public spaces
Florida
Pinellas County.
7 655
Oral history.
2 local
Online audio.
local
700
Mansfield, Bill.
710
University of South Florida Libraries.
Florida Studies Center.
Oral History Program.
University of South Florida.
Tampa Library.
4 856
u http://digital.lib.usf.edu/?w34.1
y USF ONLINE ACCESS
FTS
951
10
SFU01:001928538;
FTS



PAGE 1

C O P Y R I G H T N O T I C E T h i s O r a l H i s t o r y i s c o p y r i g h t e d b y t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f S o u t h F l o r i d a L i b r a r i e s O r a l H i s t o r y P r o g r a m o n b e h a l f o f t h e B o a r d o f T r u s t e e s o f t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f S o u t h F l o r i d a C o p y r i g h t 2 0 0 7 U n i v e r s i t y o f S o u t h F l o r i d a A l l r i g h t s r e s e r v e d T h i s o r a l h i s t o r y m a y b e u s e d f o r r e s e a r c h i n s t r u c t i o n a n d p r i v a t e s t u d y u n d e r t h e p r o v i s i o n s o f t h e F a i r U s e F a i r U s e i s a p r o v i s i o n o f t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s C o p y r i g h t L a w ( U n i t e d S t a t e s C o d e T i t l e 1 7 s e c t i o n 1 0 7 ) w h i c h a l l o w s l i m i t e d u s e o f c o p y r i g h t e d m a t e r i a l s u n d e r c e r t a i n c o n d i t i o n s F a i r U s e l i m i t s t h e a m o u n t o f m a t e r i a l t h a t m a y b e u s e d F o r a l l o t h e r p e r m i s s i o n s a n d r e q u e s t s c o n t a c t t h e U N I V E R S I T Y O F S O U T H F L O R I D A L I B R A R I E S O R A L H I S T O R Y P R O G R A M a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f S o u t h F l o r i d a 4 2 0 2 E F o w l e r A v e n u e L I B 1 2 2 T a m p a F L 3 3 6 2 0

PAGE 2

L a nd U s e O r a l H i s t or y P r oj e c t P a t e l C e nt e r f or G l oba l S ol ut i ons U ni ve r s i t y of S ou t h F l o r i da I nt e r vi e w w i t h: M r B r i a n S m i t h I nt e r vi e w e d by: W i l l i a m M a ns f i e l d L oc a t i on: T a m pa F l or i da D a t e : O c t obe r 5, 2006 T r a ns c r i be d by: W m M a ns f i e l d E di t e d by: W m M a ns f i e l d A udi t E di t e d by: K yl e B r a df or d B ur ke A udi t E di t D a t e : F e br ua r y 5 2008 F i na l E di t by: N i c ol e C ox F i na l E di t D a t e : F e br ua r y 7 2008 Wi l l i am M an s f i e l d : T hi s i s B i l l M a ns f i e l d f r om t h e U ni ve r s i t y of S out h F l or i da s S pe c i a l C ol l e c t i ons a nd t h e P a t e l C e nt e r f or G l oba l S ol ut i ons a nd I m t a l ki ng t o M r B r i a n S m i t h on O c t obe r 5 2006 W e r e he r e i n t he pl a nni ng of f i c e s ? B r i an S m i t h : Y e s t he C ount y P l a nni ng D e pa r t m e nt f o r P i ne l l a s C ount y. W M : P i n e l l a s or P i ne e l l a s ? B S : P i e ne l l a s W M : A l l r i ght P i ne l l a s C ount y. A nd M r S m i t h w e a l w a ys ge t pe opl e t o s t a r t of f by ha vi ng t he m s t a t e t he i r na m e a nd t e l l i ng us w he n t he y w e r e bor n a nd w he r e t he y w e r e bor n. B S : I a m B r i a n S m i t h. I w a s bor n A ugus t 29 1942 I w a s bor n i n L ondon, E ngl a nd. I w a s r e gi s t e r e d a s a n A m e r i c a n C i t i z e n, by m y m ot he r w he n I w a s bor n W M : U m huh. B S : T he n w e c a m e t o t hi s c ount r y i n 1949. W M : A nd w he r e di d you gr ow up? B S : [ I ] gr e w up i n s e ve r a l di f f e r e nt l oc a t i ons u m a l ot i n t he N e w E ngl a nd a r e a M y f a t he r w a s i n t he f ol l ow e d de f e ns e c ont r a c t s ; w hi c h w oul d onl y r un f or m a ybe t w o o r t hr e e ye a r s a nd t he n you d c ha nge l oc a t i ons S o I l i ve d i n M i c hi ga n a nd C a l i f o r ni a a nd a ga i n N e w E ngl a nd a nd a l s o i n F l o r i da [ F l o r i da ] i s pr e t t y m uc h w he r e m y f a m i l y s e t t l e d i n, i n t he e a r l y s i xt i e s W M : O ka y. A nd um t e l l m e your c ur r e nt oc c upa t i on.

PAGE 3

2 B S : [ M y] c ur r e nt oc c upa t i on i s I m a c ount y pl a nn e r I m w i t h t he C ount y P l a nni ng D e pa r t m e nt a nd I m t he di r e c t or of t he de pa r t m e nt I ha ve a dua l r ol e he r e I m not on l y t he c ount y pl a nni ng d i r e c t or but a l s o i n t ha t c a pa c i t y I m t he d i r e c t or of w ha t t he y c a l l t he M P O or t he M e t r opol i t a n P l a nni ng O r ga ni z a t i on, w hi c h i s t he l e a d t r a ns por t a t i on i n t he c ount y. E ve r y ur ba n a r e a i s r e qui r e d t o ha ve a n M P O a nd i n our c ount y t ha t s our de pa r t m e nt [ s e r ve s ] t ha t f unc t i on W M : O ka y. D e s c r i be i f you w i l l t he dut i e s a nd r e s pons i bi l i t i e s of t he C ount y P l a nni ng D i r e c t or B S : T he C ount y P l a nni ng D i r e c t or um w e do a l l t he g r ow t h m a na ge m e nt f o r t he c ount y, s o w e r e vi e w not onl y a l l t he de ve l opm e nt pl a ns but a c t ua l l y a l s o de ve l op t he pl a n f or t he c ount y a nd t he n r e c om m e nd i t t o t he c ount y c om m i s s i on. T he n unde r s t a t e l a w t he r e a r e a l ot of t hi ngs you ha ve t o do t o ke e p t ha t pl a n up t o da t e W e do a l l of t hos e f unc t i ons O ur de pa r t m e nt i s t he de s i gna t e d l oc a l pl a nni ng a ge nc y f or t he c ount y. T he r e f o r e w e c a r r y a l ot of t hos e f unc t i ons t ha t a r e i n t ha t S t a t e C ha pt e r 163. T he n, a l s o, be c a us e you r e t he c us t odi a n o f a l ot o f da t a a nd a na l ys i s a nd s o on um a s pa r t o f t he pl a nni ng w e ge t a l ot of ot he r j obs a nd t a s ks de a l i ng w i t h us i ng t ha t da t a a ppl yi ng t o e ve r yt hi ng f r om a nne xa t i on r e vi e w s t o pr o j e c t a nd f a c i l i t y r e v i e w s W M : O ka y a nd ( c l e a r s t hr oa t ) de ve l opm e nt w e l l m a ybe I m ge t t i ng a he a d of m ys e l f he r e but I ve done s om e r e s e a r c h a nd i t t a l ke d a bo ut t he or i gi na l pl a n f or t he c ount y w a s done i n 1979. I s t ha t c or r e c t ? B S : U m t he ba c kgr ound w a s w he n I s t a r t e d w i t h t he c ount y i n 1970 t he r e w a s a ve r y ge ne r a l i z e d pl a n t ha t w e ha d on t he w a l l I t w oul d s how w he r e f ut ur e r e s i de nt i a l [ a r e a s w e r e ] f ut ur e c om m e r c i a l [ a r e a s ] a nd i t w a s ve r y g e ne r a l T he z oni ng w a s m uc h m o r e s i t e s pe c i f i c I n f a c t t he z oni ng, I m t ol d w a s or i gi na l l y e s t a bl i s he d i n t he f i f t i e s W e ne e de d z oni ng a nd t he pr ope r t y a ppr a i s e r a s ke d e ve r ybody w ha t t he y w oul d l i ke f or t he i r z oni ng ( c huc kl e s ) I m s ur e t he r e w a s m or e t o i t t ha n t ha t bu t t ha t w a s pr e t t y m uc h how t hi ngs got s e t up. T he r e f or e t he r e w e r e a l ot o f you know a l ot o f t hi ngs w e r e e s t a bl i s he d t ha t w a y. I don t t hi nk pe opl e vi e w e d z oni ng [ t he n] t he s a m e w a y t he y do now T he n i t w a s j us t pe r m i t t i ng a us e t hi ng but t he r e w e r e n t i s s ue s a bout de ns i t y c ont r ol or t hi ngs l i ke t ha t A t t ha t t i m e t he r e s i de nt i a l t he a pa r t m e nt w a s pr e t t y m uc h w ha t e ve r you c oul d f i t on t he pr ope r t y. T he r e w e r e n t a ny d e s t i ny l i m i t s

PAGE 4

3 T he n t he r e w a s t he c onc e r n a bout a c t ua l l y ha vi ng c ont r ol a nd a pl a n t ha t w a s t o be f ol l ow e d. S o t he y s e t up a c ount yw i de p l a n, w i t h a s pe c i a l a c t t hr ough t he l e gi s l a t ur e j us t f or P i ne l l a s C ount y. W e a c t ua l l y ha d a pl a n a dopt e d i n 1974 t ha t w a s c ount y w i de a nd ha d t he f or c e a nd e f f e c t of l a w ; w hi c h w a s a t ot a l l y ne w c onc e pt U p t o t ha t t i m e pl a nni ng w a s a dvi s or y. I t w a s s om e t hi ng you w or ke d t ow a r d w i t h t he z oni ng. U m a l l o f a s udde n, w he n you s how e d i t on t he pl a n a s c om m e r c i a l or w ha t e ve r i t w a s t ha t s w ha t w a s t o ha ppe n. T ha t w a s a t ot a l l y ne w i de a T he ne xt ye a r [ i n 1975] t he l e gi s l a t ur e pa s s e d t he L oc a l G ove r nm e nt C om pr e he ns i ve P l a nni ng A c t t he y c a l l e d i t t he L G C P A T ha t p l a c e d t he s a m e r e qui r e m e nt t hr oughout t he s t a t e I t s a i d a ny pl a n you a dopt e d w oul d ha ve t ha t e f f e c t of l a w a nd z oni ng w oul d ha ve t o a dhe r e di r e c t l y t o i t S o i t w a s a r ound t he 74, 75 t i m e f r a m e t ha t t he r ul e s c ha nge d, not onl y f or us but a l s o f or t he r e s t of t he s t a t e W M : W e l l um ba s e d on w ha t you s a i d, p r i or t o 74 i t w a s f a i r l y l a x? B S : Y e s P r oba bl y t he pe opl e a t t he t i m e w oul d s a y i t w a s n t ne c e s s a r i l y l a x, i t w a s j us t a di f f e r e nt p r oc e dur e I t w a s a l l a bout z oni ng T he pl a n w a s n t r e a l l y a gove r ni ng i n f l ue nc e i n how de ve l opm e nt oc c ur r e d. I t w a s m o r e of a f u t ur i s t i c j us t a s or t of a dvi s or y t ype of a doc um e nt I t w a s a gui de W M : U m huh. B S : S o I don t know w he t he r i t w oul d be l a x o r not i t pr oba bl y de pe nde d on t he c om m uni t y, how m uc h i t w a s B e c a us e pe opl e ha ve a l w a ys be e n c onc e r ne d a bout w ha t s ha ppe ni ng. Y ou know t he w hol e or i gi n of z oni ng w a s ke e pi ng ne i ghbor s f r om a f f e c t i ng you a nd s om e t hi ng l i ke t ha t S o um i t s pr oba bl y a j udg e m e nt c a l l a bout how i t w a s us e d. W M : O ka y. W ha t ki nd of r e a c t i on w a s t he r e w he n i t c ha nge d? B S : I w oul d s a y i t w a s ki nd of t r a um a t i c f or m or e t he pl a nne r s t ha n i t w a s [ f or ] t he c om m uni t y. B e c a us e a l l of a s udde n w e ha d a pl a n t ha t ha d t o be f ol l ow e d e xa c t l y. I don t t hi nk w e qui t e r e a l i z e d t ha t w he n w e put i t i n t o e f f e c t how do you w or k t hi s ? N ow e ve r ybody a c c e pt s i t T he pl a n i s bl a c k a nd w hi t e you f ol l ow i t B ut ba c k t he n i t m e a nt t ha t i f you ha d s om e z oni ng de ns i t y t ha t w a s m or e t ha n w ha t t he pl a n s how e d, you c oul dn t do t ha t O r i f you ha d a pi e c e o f c om m e r c i a l pr ope r t y a nd you e ve n ha d c om m e r c i a l z oni ng, b ut t he pl a n s how e d i t a s r e s i de nt i a l t he n yo u c oul dn t r e a l l y do a nyt hi ng w i t h t he pr ope r t y c a us e i t w a s n t r e s i de nt i a l S o t he pl a nne r s w e r e t he m os t w ho ha d t o do a l ot of m a j or a dj us t m e nt a nd t hi nki ng t o de a l w i t h t ha t N ow of c our s e e ve n i n t he s t a t e w he n I s a i d t he L oc a l G ove r nm e nt C om pr e he ns i ve P l a n A c t t ha t 1975 a c t t he pl a ns t ha t c a m e i nt o e f f e c t unde r t ha t w e r e a r ound 1980 o r

PAGE 5

4 81. T ha t s w he n pl a nni ng i n t he s t a t e s t a r t e d r e a l l y ge t t i ng i n ge a r a nd t he pl a ns s t a r t e d r e a l l y l i ke you c oul d s e e t he y c a l l e d t he a c t t he M a na ge d G r ow t h A c t S o you, r e a l l y be f or e t ha t di dn t ha ve a M a na ge d G r ow t h A c t a t a l l Y ou j us t ha d z oni ng, l ooki ng a t a dj a c e nt us e s a nd w ho i s goi ng t o s or t of m i ni m i z e t he m os t c onf l i c t s B ut t he pl a n s t a r t e d t a l k i ng a bout t ha t you ne e d t o l ook a t t he s e ot he r e l e m e nt s of t he pl a n: r e c r e a t i on, t r a ns por t a t i on w a t e r a nd t hi ngs l i ke t ha t T he n you w oul d t he n s t a r t de ve l opi ng a pl a n ba s e d upon a l l of t hos e S o w e i n P i ne l l a s C ount y di d t he s a m e t hi ng a s ot he r pa r t s of t he s t a t e A s a n e xa m pl e i t w a s t h r o ugh t ha t pr oc e dur e t ha t w e w oul d s t a r t l ooki ng a t de ns i t y l i m i t s ba s e d upon w ha t w e c oul d do s or t of s uppor t S o w e s t a r t e d r a m pi ng dow n t he de ns i t y r e qui r e m e nt s qui t e a bi t W e d e ve n ha ve t he s e l ow de ns i t y c a t e gor i e s of one uni t a n a c r e t w o a nd a ha l f uni t s a n a c r e a m uc h l ow e r r a nge of us e s B e c a us e w e r e a l i z e d w e c oul dn t a f f or d t o c a r r y t h e popul a t i on t ha t t he z oni ng w oul d pe r m i t L i ke I m e nt i one d, you d ha ve t ypi c a l l y z oni ng w o ul d be R 1, R 2, R 4, R 4 a nd R 5. W M : A nd w ha t doe s R 1, R 2 a nd [ s o on, m e a n] ? B S : O ka y, R 1 R 2 a nd R 3 w e r e a l l s i ngl e f a m i l y z one s w i t h va r y i ng l ot s i z e s A nyt hi ng f r om s i x t hous a nd s qua r e f e e t w a s R 3, s e ve nt y f i ve hundr e d w a s R 2 a nd I t hi nk t e n t hous a nd. R 1 I t hi nk c a n t r e m e m be r e xa c t l y t he num be r i t w a s s om e t hi ng l a r ge r l i ke t e n t hous a nd, I m not qui t e s ur e T he n t hos e t ha t w e r e a l l 1 2 a nd 3, t he s i ngl e f a m i l y z one s T he n R 4 w a s a dupl e x t r i pl e x z one t ha t you pe r m i t t e d. T he n R 5 w a s t he a pa r t m e nt z one T he r e w a s no d e ns i t y s t a t e m e nt i n i t a t a l l Y ou j us t pe r m i t t e d a pa r t m e nt s a nd c ondom i n i um s or a nyt hi ng e l s e you put i n t he r e T he n, t o r ound i t a l l out t he ot he r r e s i de nt i a l z one w a s R 6, w hi c h w a s m obi l e hom e s W M : U m huh. B S : T ha t w a s pr e t t y m uc h t he c ookbook t ha t not o nl y w e us e d, but pr e t t y m uc h us e d a r ound i n a l l t he c om m uni t i e s t hr oughou t t he s t a t e a s i m i l a r num be r r a nge B ut you c oul d s e e t he r e f o r t ha t i t di dn t m a t t e r T he a pa r t m e nt ha d t o do w ha t t he m a r ke t w a nt e d, w ha t t he y t hought t he y w oul d w or k w i t h i t B ut i t c oul d be a nyt hi ng f r om a hi gh r i s e t o a t ow nhous e I t w a s j us t not t ha t t h e z oni ng di dn t l i m i t t ha t N ow t ha t s a ve r y c om m on you ve go t a l l ki nds of s pe c i f i c s a bout t ha t c a t e gor y now W M : W e l l t he pl a ns t ha t w e r e d r a w n up, how m uc h l oc a l i nput w a s t he r e I m e a n, c a us e j us t f r om he a r i ng yo u t a l k I ge t t he i m pr e s s i on t ha t pe opl e f r om t he s t a t e c a m e i n a nd a ppl i e d t he pl a n t o t he c ount y. S o how di d i t w or k?

PAGE 6

5 B S : O ka y. I t w a s n t a c t ua l l y t he s t a t e c om i ng i n. T he s t a t e ha d t hi s r e qui r e m e nt a nd t he l e gi s l a t ur e put i t i n pl a c e T he r e w a s ve r y l i t t l e u m um e nga ge m e nt f r om t he s t a t e s i de I t w a s e a c h l oc a l gove r nm e nt ha d t o f i gur e ou t how t o de ve l op a pl a n i n c onf or m a nc e w i t h t he s t a t e l a w A c t ua l l y, be c a us e of t he f l e xi bi l i t y of i t e ve r ybody s pl a n w oul d be qui t e di f f e r e nt H ow you di d m a na ge g r ow t h c oul d be l ooke d a t di f f e r e nt w a ys A c t ua l l y t ha t w a s w ha t t r i gge r e d t he up da t e a bout s e ve r a l ye a r s l a t e r i n t he m i de i ght i e s I t hi nk a r ound 1985 t he M a na ge d G r ow t h A c t w e nt i n I n t hi s c a s e i t s t a r t e d r e a l l y r a m pi ng up t he r e qui r e m e nt s f or w ha t a l oc a l gove r n m e nt ha d t o ha ve i n i t s pl a n. T he y s t a r t e d de ve l opi ng a l o t m or e of a s pe c i f i c c ookbook, r a t he r t ha n T hou s ha l t pl a n i t Y e s ha l l pl a n a nd do i t t he f ol l ow i ng w a y. S o t ha t s w he n you got i nt o, not j us t um de ns i t y a nd l oc a t i on r e qui r e m e nt s f o r l a nd us e s but t he n t ha t s w he n you ki c ke d i n t he c onc u r r e nc y r e qui r e m e nt s t o w he r e de ve l opm e nt c oul d not oc c ur unt i l s uppor t s e r vi c e s w e r e t he r e o r w e r e t he r e i n a c e r t a i n t i m e pe r i od. T ha t w a s t he 1985 A c t T hos e pl a ns w oul d ha ve r ol l e d i n a r ound 1 989, 90, 91, a r ound t he s t a t e B ut you ha d w ha t t he y c a l l e d a um a t t ha t poi nt t hi ngs ha d r a m pe d up w i t h t he s t a t e [ T he y] w e r e now f e e l i ng t ha t t he y w a nt e d t o m a ke s ur e t ha t t he l oc a l gove r nm e nt s di d a good on l i ne p l a n a nd s o t he y w r ot e r ul e s f or t he m I t hi nk i t w a s c a l l e d 9 J 5 r e qui r e m e nt s I t w a s a s pe c i a l r ul e t ha t t he D e pa r t m e nt of C om m uni t y A f f a i r s ha d t ha t s a i d, T hi s i s w ha t s goi ng t o be i n you r pl a n N ot onl y [ t ha t ] but t he l e gi s l a t ur e s a i d w i t h t w e l ve e l e m e nt s but t h i s i s w ha t s goi ng t o be i n e a c h of t he e l e m e nt s of t he p l a n a nd a l l t ha t S o t he r e w a s a r a m pi ng up o f a h i f you w a nt t o s a y a c c ount a bi l i t y W M : U m huh. B S : A nd t he n you r pl a ns ha d t o be s e nt t o t he s t a t e f or t he m t o a gr e e w i t h I f t he y di dn t l i ke i t t he y c oul d t e l l you s o a n d t he i r e nf or c e m e nt w a s t o hol d ba c k s om e s t a t e m one y o r s om e t hi ng l i ke t ha t W M : T he c a r r ot or t he s t i c k? B S : Y our us ua l t hi ng B ut t he s t a t e doe s n t ha ve a l ot Y ou w oul d s t i l l ha ve a l e ga l p l a n, i t j us t m e a nt t ha t t he y w oul d be a nd s o P l us t h e y pr o ba bl y w oul dn t ha ve ne e de d t ha t L oc a l gove r nm e nt i s n t goi ng t o be a dopt i ng s om e t hi ng t ha t t he s t a t e a h ha s s a i d t he y don t t hi nk i s good. W M : S o how di d you a l l go a bout put t i ng t he pl a n t oge t he r ?

PAGE 7

6 B S : W e l l i t w a s your t r a di t i ona l p r oc e dur e W ha t y ou w oul d do i s a nd t hi s ha d t o do w i t h e ve n t he f i r s t pl a n t ha t w e di d. I w oul d s a y w he n w e r e a l l y s t a r t e d ge t t i ng e vol ve d i n pl a nni ng w oul d ha ve be e n f r om t he m i d s e ve nt i e s unde r w ha t t he y c a l l t he L oc a l G ov e r nm e nt C om pr e he ns i ve P l a nni ng A c t t he ol d L G C P A T ha t w a s 1975. T ha t s w he n w e r e a l l y s t a r e d pl a nni ng. A nd you ha d t he s e va r i ous e l e m e nt s s o w ha t you di d w a s you w oul d d r a f t up a n e l e m e nt a nd t he n you d ha ve c om m uni t y w or ks hops Y ou d go i nt o t he c om m uni t y a nd a dve r t i s e a nd i t d be ve r y s i m i l a r t o t he pr oc e s s w e r e us i ng now Y ou go out ha ve i nf or m a l w or ks hops a nd you s how t he m d r a f t pl a ns Y ou l i s t e n t o w ha t t he y ha ve t o s a y. Y ou r e f i ne w ha t you di d, ba s e d upon t he publ i c c om m e nt T he n you s t a r t t he n i n t o a publ i c he a r i ng pr oc e s s w he r e you ve go t a boa r d s i t t i ng u p f r ont a nd pe opl e c om m e nt i ng Y ou do t ha t a s you r pl a nni ng a ge nc y. T he n you m a ke a r e c om m e nda t i on t o t he B oa r d o f C ount y C om m i s s i one r s [ a nd t he y] a c t on i t T hos e w e r e a l l i n publ i c he a r i ng pr oc e s s B ut um pr oba bl y I d s a y t he f i r s t one t ha t w a s done i n t he e a r l y 1980 s l i ke 80, or 81, l i ke t ha t t ha t p l a n. W e ha d a l ot of pe opl e s ho w i ng up a t t he he a r i ng be c a us e w e w e r e s t i l l ha vi ng a pl a n t ha t w a s goi ng t o ha ve t h i s um e f f e c t pe opl e s pr ope r t y m or e t ha n ot he r pl a ns [ w oul d ] S o, you r e a l l y ha d a l ot of pe opl e um t ha t w e r e be i ng a f f e c t e d. S o w he n w e a dopt e d t he pl a n w e w oul d ha ve a l i s t c onne c t e d w i t h i t of a l l t he s e pe opl e t ha t w e r e p r ope r t y ow ne r s t ha t s a i d, W e l l I m oka y w i t h t he p l a n i f I m a l l ow e d t o do s uc h a nd s uc h f o r a ye a r s o. L i ke t hi s t he s i t e pl a ns m i ght be a c t i ve S o w ha t ha ppe ne d w a s t o ge t t ha t pl a n t h r ough yo u ha d t o do a l ot of t ha t Y ou ha d t o N ow i t s m or e um be c a us e pl a ns ha ve be e n i n pl a c e f or a w hi l e i t s a l w a ys a bout a c ha nge on a pa r t i c ul a r pa r c e l o r a r e a B ut ba c k t he n you ha d t he w hol e c ount y t o de a l w i t h. S o you, t he r e f o r e p r oba bl y ha d a hundr e d t o t w o hundr e d di f f e r e nt pa r c e l s t ha t w e w e r e goi ng t o e f f e c t be c a us e i t j us t w a s n t t he r i gh t us e S o how do you de a l w i t h t ha t ove r t i m e ? H ow do y o u pha s e t he m out ? S o t he y r e a l l c a s e by c a s e S o w e ha d a w hol e f ol de r f ul l of t hos e w he n w e w e r e f i r s t doi ng t he pl a n put t i ng t he m on l i ne T ha t w a s n t e a s y. ( l a ughs ) W M : ( l a ughs ) I c a n i m a gi ne Y ou s a i d t ha t um a t t he w or ks hops you ha d a l a r ge t ur nout ? B S : I w oul d s a y i t w a s m ode r a t e T he r e a s on t he t u r nout w a s oc c ur r i ng be c a us e t hi s w a s t he f i r s t t i m e pe opl e w e r e be i ng i m pa c t e d by a pl a n. A l ot of t he pe opl e t ha t w e r e s how i ng up w e r e pe opl e t ha t w e r e a f f e c t e d di r e c t l y by t he p l a n. T he r e w e r e s om e pe o pl e a l s o t he r e t ha t w e r e c onc e r ne d a bout t he e nvi r onm e nt a nd [ s a yi ng] t ha t w e ne e de d t o ha ve de ns i t y c ont r ol s T he r e w a s t ha t pa r t o f t he c o m m uni t y a s w e l l

PAGE 8

7 I t w a s i n t he e a r l y ye a r s t o w he r e w e ha d a l ot of e nvi r onm e nt a l l a nds t ha t ha dn t be e n t hr e a t e ne d w i t h de ve l opm e nt but you c oul d s t i l l s e e t he ha ndw r i t i ng on t he w a l l S o pa r t of t he pl a n w a s t he n not r e gul a t i on, pa r t of t he pl a n w a s a l s o [ a bout ] how t o ge t a bl ue pr i nt goi ng t o a c qui r e a nd pr ot e c t pr ope r t i e s t h a t w e w e r e c onc e r ne d a bout A c t ua l l y w e ha d, i n t he e a r l y s e ve nt i e s de ve l ope d a l i s t of a hundr e d a nd s i xt y one pr ope r t i e s t ha t w e w a nt e d t o ha ve p r e s e r ve d. E ve r yt hi ng f r o m a w hol e G r oupe r C r e e k pr e s e r ve d t o s om e t hi ng r e a l l y s m a l l l i ke a one or t w o a c r e pa r c e l I t w a s i nt e r e s t i ng, j us t a c ou pl e of ye a r s a go w e r e l ooke d a t t ha t l i s t a nd f ound t ha t w e ha d a c t ua l l y pr ot e c t e d one hund r e d a nd s i xt y [ out ] of one hund r e d a nd s i xt y one s i t e s W M : W ow t ha t s pr e t t y good! B S : W hi c h i s [ p r e t t y good] W e a c t ua l l y got a na t i ona l e nvi r onm e nt a l a w a r d f or i t B e c a us e you know w e w e r e a bl e t o doc um e nt i t W e ha d w ha t you c a l l a r e d f l a g c ha r r e t t e pr ogr a m i n t he e a r l y 1970s W e put a l l t h e e nvi r onm e nt a l i s t s t oge t he r i n a r oom t w e nt y or t h i r t y pe opl e [ W e ] ha d a l l di f f e r e nt ki nd s of e xpe r t i s e T he y w e r e ou t i n t he f i e l d m a ki ng r e por t s a nd i de nt i f i e d a c om pr e he ns i ve m a p t ha t l i s t e d a l l of t he s i t e s I t w a s know n t ha t w e m i ght not be a bl e t o ge t t he s e r i ght a w a y, but t hi s i s a l ong t e r m pr ogr a m N ot a l l of t he s i t e s w e r e a c qui r e d w i t h i n a ye a r or t w o; i t w a s l i ke a pus hi ng t hi r t y ye a r s t ype of p r ogr a m S o i n a ddi t i on t o l a nd r e gul a t i on w e w e r e doi ng t ha t W hi c h i s a l s o a ke y pa r t T he be s t w a y t o pr ot e c t i t i s t o ow n i t ( l a ughs ) W M : ( l a ughs ) B S : A l t hough I l l a dm i t t ha t i s s t i l l not w i t hout i t s de ba t e s B e c a us e e ve n i f you r e t he ow ne r of i t a s t he gove r nm e nt pe opl e c oul d s t i l l b e t e m pt e d t o do t hi ngs i n t he s e pr e s e r ve s S o, you know i t s s t i l l you a l w a ys ha ve t o ha ve your e ye s ope n, e ve n on t ha t s i de S o w e ha d t o t he n e s t a bl i s h c ont r ol p r oc e dur e s e ve n f or publ i c ow ne r s hi p. S o w e ha ve pr e s e r va t i on c a t e gor y i n t he pl a n w e p ut on t he pr ope r t y t ha t i s now publ i c l y ow ne d a nd e ve n s a y w ha t i s pe r m i t t e d a nd w ha t s not pe r m i t t e d i n t e r m s of a c t i vi t i e s W M : S o l i ke hi ki ng on l y? B S : Y e s T he r e s a l ot of de ba t e go i ng on r i ght no w w i t h us w i t h ou r pr e s e r ve s B e c a us e i t w a s a s s um e d t ha t you w oul d on l y ha ve a t t he m os t F i r s t of a l l t he r e i s a l ot of e nvi r onm e nt a l l a nd t ha t you w oul d not [ l e t ] a nyt hi ng t o ha ppe n t o a t a l l A ppa r e nt l y you c a n m a ke a n a r gum e nt t ha t you d i dn t e ve n w a nt p e opl e w a l ki ng i n i t I t w a s t ha t ki nd o f s t r i c t T he n w e ha ve pa s s i ve r e c r e a t i on w he r e you d ha ve w a l ki ng t r a i l s a nd t hi ngs l i ke t ha t T ha t w oul d be up, but you w oul dn t be de a l i ng w i t h ba l l f i e l ds o r a ny of t he nor m a l or ga ni z e d s por t s t ype of t hi ng. I t w a s j us t a p r e s e r ve A nd t he n ove r t he ye a r s I d s a y

PAGE 9

8 r e c e nt ye a r s a s w e a c qui r e m or e a nd m or e o f t hi s l a nd a nd you ve got publ i c s uppor t t o do i t t he que s t i on c a m e up H ow doe s t he publ i c a ppr e c i a t e a l l of t hi s i nve s t m e nt t he y ve got i n i t ? A nd you ve got t o ha ve s om e f o r m of a c c e s s f or t he s e pe opl e t o a t l e a s t know w ha t s out t he r e w ha t t he e nvi r onm e n t i s S o w e ve a dj us t e d a l i t t l e bi t t ha t w a y t he pr e s e r ve s a r e a l i t t l e bi t m or e ope n t o t he p ubl i c B ut t ha t s be e n m or e i n t he l a s t f e w ye a r s B ut up unt i l t he n i t w a s put a f e nc e a r ound i t ; j us t t he bi r ds a nd t he a ni m a l s i n t he r e N o pe opl e be c a us e i t s t ha t ( l a ughs ) I t hi nk t ha t t h i n ki ng ha s c ha nge d a l i t t l e bi t W M : W e l l um I t hi nk t ha t i f you a l l pr e s e r ve d one hundr e d a nd s i xt y out o f one hundr e d a nd s i xt y one s i t e s t ha t you t hought w e r e i m por t a nt t ha t i s s om e t hi ng t o f e e l good a bout B S : T ha t s a m a z i ng. W M : B ut a t t he c om m uni t y w or ks hops you s a i d y ou ha d t he e nvi r onm e nt a l i s t s w ho I gue s s w e r e m or e l ooki ng a t t h e c om m uni t y i nt e r e s t s B ut t he ot he r pe opl e w e r e t he y hom e ow ne r s ? P r ope r t y ow ne r s ? I m e a n l i ke r e nt a l pr ope r t y c om m e r c i a l f ol ks B S : Y e s W M : T e l l m e a bout t he m B S : W e l l t he ki nd o f t he pe opl e t ha t w oul d s how up, be s i de s t he pe opl e f r om t he e nvi r onm e nt a l i nt e r e s t s t he pe opl e f r om t he S i e r r a C l ub a nd t he e nvi r onm e nt a l gr oups l i ke t ha t a nd t he n t he F r i e nds o f S om e t hi ng Y ou ha d a l s o, t he pe opl e t ha t ow ne d va c a nt l a nd t ha t w a nt e d t o know how m uc h t he y w e r e goi ng t o be l i m i t e d, w ha t oppo r t uni t i e s t he y h a d. [ T he y] w a nt e d t o be l ooki ng out f or t he i r i nt e r e s t s T he n you ha d a l s o Y ou di dn t ha ve a l ot of hom e ow ne r gr oup t hi ngs be c a us e t he y w e r e a l r e a dy e s t a bl i s he d. W M : U m huh. B S : S o I w oul d m or e s a y i t w a s gr oups t ha t ha d t h e va c a nt l a nd, t he de ve l opm e nt i nt e r e s t s t he pe opl e t ha t w a nt e d t o p r e s e r ve t hi ngs [ a nd] t he n you ha d s om e pe opl e t ha t w e r e j us t c onc e r ne d a bout s a y, t he i m pa c t on t he r oa ds s ys t e m c onge s t i on a nd t hi ngs l i ke t ha t B ut a l s o, w he n w e w e r e doi ng t hi s w e w e r e de ve l opi ng not j us t a l a nd us e c om pone nt but you ha d t he s e ba s i c a l l y t w e l ve e l e m e nt s of a pl a n. S o you ha d pe opl e c om m e nt i ng on t he t r a ns por t a t i on a s pe c t t he r e c r e a t i on ope n s pa c e a s pe c t t he hous i ng a s pe c t T he r e w e r e a l ot o f e l e m e nt s of t he pl a n t ha t w e w e r e hol di ng he a r i ngs on. S o i t w a s n t I di dn t w a nt t o ove r e m pha s i z e t he l a nd us e a l one

PAGE 10

9 W M : U m huh. Y ou ve m e nt i one d t he t w e l ve e l e m e nt s of t he pl a n P e r ha ps you c oul d l i s t t he m ? B S : I c oul d go l ook t he m up ( l a ughs ) W M : ( l a ughs ) B S : T he y r e l i s t e d i n t he S t a t e S t a t ut e s 163, but ge ne r a l l y s pe a ki ng you r e l ooki ng a t a phys i c a l ba s e d pl a n, s o t he r e a r e t he n. T he r e a r e e l e m e nt s t ha t l ook a t t he l a nd de ve l opm e nt S o y ou r e l ooki ng a t l a nd us e t r a ns por t a t i on um w a t e r s e w e r dr a i na ge t he s e ki nd of i s s ue s ; r e c r e a t i on ope n s pa c e hous i n g. I t s f oc us e d pr i m a r i l y on t hos e ki nds of s ubj e c t s A nd t he r e i s a bout t w e l ve of t he m T he i nt e r e s t i ng t hi ng i s t ha t t he r e w e r e t he n you ha d ot he r opt i ona l e l e m e nt s t ha t ha d be e n l i t t l e us e d. F or i ns t a nc e a l l t he s oc i a l a s pe c t of o ur s oc i e t y, w ha t w e do t ha t s not r e qui r e d or c a l l e d f o r w a s a l l f oc us e d on t he l a nd s i de of t hi ngs l a nd ba s e d o r phys i c a l de ve l opm e nt S o, I t hi nk t ha t s s om e t hi ng, t ha t s s om e t hi ng t ha t s r a m pe d up i n r e c e nt ye a r s now t ha t f or us a nd pr oba bl y o t he r p a r t s of t he s t a t e w hi c h i s W ha t do w e w a nt t o do i n t e r m s of pl a nni ng t ha t s houl d be pa r t of pl a n f or t h e s oc i a l s i de of t hi ngs A nd t ha t s s t i l l a n e m e r gi ng t hi ng. T o gi ve you a n e xa m pl e w e r e c e nt l y c a m e up w i t h t he t hi r t e e nt h e l e m e nt of t he p l a n w hi c h i s n t i n t he book a t l e a s t i n t he s t a t e s book A s i t w a s w e de ve l ope d a n e l e m e nt c a l l e d pl a nni ng t o s t a y. W e r e a l i z e d, i t w a s a c oup l e of ye a r s a go t ha t a l l o f our pl a nni ng w a s ba s e d upon um a gr e e n a r e a s o t o s pe a k, w he r e you j us t ha d ope n l a nd, you r e w or ki ng w i t h de ve l opi ng. B ut now our pl a nni ng ne e de d t o t a ke i nt o a c c ount [ t ha t ] t hi ngs w e r e a l r e a dy de ve l ope d a nd bui l t out S o how do you p r ot e c t w ha t s bui l t o ut a nd i n s om e c a s e s you m i ght w a nt t o ha ve s om e r e de ve l opm e nt B ut i n a l ot of i t t he r e i s a l ot m or e p r e s s ur e on t he e nvi r onm e nt a l l a nd t ha t w a s l e f t t ha t m a ybe w a s n t on t he H undr e d a nd s i xt y l i s t but t he r e s s t i l l m or e e nvi r onm e nt W M : U m huh. B S : H ow do you de a l w i t h t he s m a l l e r pa r c e l s or t he e nvi r onm e nt a l l a nd t ha t s a n upl a nd a r e a t ha t w a s n t a w e t l a nd a nd t hi ngs l i ke t ha t ? S o um ba s i c a l l y you w a nt t o c om e up w i t h a n e l e m e nt t ha t s a i d t ha t you w oul d ha ve f u t ur e ge ne r a t i ons s a y ou r gr a ndc hi l dr e n, w oul d s t i l l w a nt t o be P i ne l l a s C ou nt y t o l i ve w or k a nd pl a y. T he r e f or e [ w e n e e d t o] s e t up gui de l i ne s i n t he e l e m e nt f or h ow w oul d w e a ppr oa c h f ut ur e pl a nni ng, w i t h t ha t a s s um pt i on i n m i nd. Y ou c oul d c a l l i t s us t a i na bl e but a c t ua l l y i t w a s a l i t t l e bi t m or e t ha n s us t a i na bl e pl a nni ng. S us t a i na bl e m e a ns you r e j us t pr e s e r vi ng

PAGE 11

1 0 W M : U m huh. B S : I n t h i s c a s e w e r e t a l ki ng a bout w a y m o r e t ha n t ha t s om e one w a nt i ng t o s t a y he r e o r w a nt i ng t o c om e ba c k, i f t he y l e f t t ha t s or t of t hi n g. A ga i n, f o r j obs f or l i vi ng f or r e c r e a t i on f or qua l i t y of l i f e j us t a l l o f t ha t a nd um t ha t s ki nd of be e n our gui de l i ne now f or t he l a s t c oupl e of ye a r s i n t e r m s o f ou r pl a nni ng. O ur c ount y ha s s om e pe opl e c l a i m i t s bui l t out but t ha t s not Y ou c oul d s a y, l i ke M a nha t t a n, i n N e w Y or k i s bui l t out a nd ye t t he r e r e s t i l l bui l di ng t hi ngs doi ng t hi n gs a l l t he t i m e S o I t hi nk t ha t s w ha t w e r e l ook i ng a t i s w e w a nt t o ha ve a n e c onom y t ha t s c ont i nui ng but i t doe s n t ne c e s s a r i l y ha ve t o be t hi s e xt r a gr ow t h I t c oul d be r e w or ki ng t hi ngs m a ki ng t he m be t t e r A l s o, a n e m pha s i s on t he qua l i t y of l i f e a s pe c t w e ha ve t he P i ne l l a s T r a i l t ha t w e e s t a bl i s he d i n 1990. A c t ua l l y i t w a s pa r t of t ha t w h ol e m a na ge d gr ow t h i ni t i a t i ve W e ha d e i ght m i l l i on dol l a r s t ha t w a s w he n w e f i r s t e s t a bl i s he d um W or ki ng ba c k a l i t t l e bi t i n 1985 t he y, w he n t he y di d t ha t M a na ge d G r ow t h A c t t he upda t e a nd t he y m a de a m uc h m or e c om pr e he ns i ve r e qui r e m e nt on us f o r doi ng pl a nni ng. T he y s a i d you c oul dn t ha ve de ve l opm e nt w i t hout s uppor t i ng f a c i l i t i e s t he c onc ur r e nc y a s pe c t T he y a l s o put i n t he r e t he f a c t t ha t you c oul d go f o r a n i n f r a s t r uc t ur e t a x t he y c a l l i t o f 1 pe r c e nt s a l e s t a x. T ha t w oul d be t he t ool t ha t you c oul d ge t m one y t o bui l d t he t hi n gs you ne e de d t o s uppor t t he de ve l opm e nt t ha t you d i de n t i f i e d you know t hi s s or t o f t hi ng be c a us e i f you a r e r e qui r e d t o ha ve a l l o f t he s e i m p r ove m e nt s t he n you ha d t o ha ve m one y t o do t ha t S o w ha t ha ppe ne d w a s w e de ve l ope d t he p l a n a nd w e de ve l ope d a n i m pr ove m e nt l i s t a s w e l l A nd t ha t w a s w ha t w a s t a ke n t o a r e f e r e ndum i n 1989 a nd pa s s e d. I t w a s one of t he f e w i n t he s t a t e a t t he t i m e t ha t pa s s e d. I t pa s s e d by t hr e e hundr e d vot e s or s om e t hi ng. B ut t he n t ha t s w he r e w e got t he m one y t o do a l ot of not on l y r oa d i m pr ove m e nt s a nd a l ot of pa r k, e nvi r onm e nt a l a c qui s i t i ons w e a l s o bu i l t t he P i ne l l a s T r a i l w i t h t ha t [ I t w a s bui l t ] on a n e xi s t i ng r a i l l i ne I m e a n a n a ba ndone d r a i l l i ne t ha t t he s t a t e ha d a c qui r e d W M : U m huh. B S : T he r e a s on I m e nt i one d t ha t i s i t ki nd of i nf l ue nc e d t he w hol e a ppr oa c h, I t hi nk, of t he c ount y i n t e r m s of de ve l opm e nt i n t he f u t ur e T hi s w a s t he t hi r t y f our m i l e c or r i dor t hr ough t he m i ddl e of t he c ount y t ha t w a s c ont i nuo us a nd um di dn t e xi s t a nyw he r e e ve n na t i ona l l y. S o you ha ve ot he r pl a c e s w he r e t h e t r a i l w i l l go f r om t he c i t y out but i n t hi s c a s e i t goe s t hr ough t he m i ddl e o f a l l our dow nt ow ns a nd t he r e s t l i ke t hi s I t w a s l i ke a n e i ght m i l l i on dol l a r t i c ke t t ha t w a s i nc l ude d i n t ha t pe nny pr og r a m W e bui l t t ha t a nd w e r e now de a l i ng w i t h w e r e now de a l i ng w i t h e xt e ns i ons i n t ha t but i t i nf l ue nc e s

PAGE 12

1 1 pe opl e s t hi nki ng. I t s a bi ke pe de s t r i a n t r a i l i n t he m i ddl e of e ve r yt hi ng i n t he m i dd l e of e ve r yt hi ng i n t he m i dd l e of dow nt ow n, s o a c om m uni t y l i ke D une di n w i l l j us t e ve nt ua l l y w or k t he i r dow nt ow n a r ound i t a s a pe de s t r i a n f r i e ndl y e nvi r onm e nt S o t ha t s r e a l l y i nf l ue nc e d ou r w hol e a ppr oa c h t o how w e vi e w de ve l opm e nt e m pha s i z i ng t he bi ke pe de s t r i a n [ t r a i l ] I don t w a nt t o ove r e m pha s i z e a l l of t ha t be c a us e t he y r e s t i l l do i ng a l o t of r oa d bui l di ng. B ut i t s s or t of i nf l ue nc e d you r qua l i t y of l i f e c onc e pt W M : W e l l I w a s goi ng t o a s k w ha t ki nd o f you s a i d t he r e f e r e ndum t o l e vy t he t a x f or t he s e ki nd of i m p r ove m e nt s pa s s e d by t hr e e hundr e d vot e s w hi c h I d t h i nk w oul d be s or t of a s l i m m a r gi n B S : I t w a s ve r y s l i m W M : S o s i nc e t ha t s be e n i n pl a c e f r om w ha t you ve s a i d, I a s s um e i t s be e n s uc c e s s f ul B S : Y e s W M : S o w ha t ki nd of pub l i c s uppor t i s t he r e f or um f or publ i c s pa c e l i ke t ha t ? B S : W e l l a c t ua l l y i t one of t he r e a s ons pe opl e f e l t t he pe nny [ t a x] pa s s e d w a s be c a us e of t he P i ne l l a s T r a i l be i ng i n t he pa c ka ge T he n yo u ha d a num b e r of c i t i z e ns w ho w e r e a dvoc a t e s f or t ha t W ha t w e f ound w a s t ha t i f yo u di d w ha t you t hought w e r e i m po r t a nt t hi ngs t he j a i l s a nd t he c our t c om pl e xe s a nd t he r oa ds i n t he r e pe opl e t hought t ha t w a s i m por t a nt but t he y w e r e n t ne c e s s a r i l y goi ng t o vot e f o r e xt r a t a xe s f o r t ha t B ut t he y w oul d [ vot e ] f or a n e nvi r on m e nt a l pr e s e r ve f or op e n s pa c e f or t r a i l s T ha t s e e m e d t o be t he t hi ng t ha t hi t a ne r ve w i t h pe opl e T he y w oul d be O ka y t ha t s f i ne W e l l do t ha t T he y kne w t ha t you w oul dn t do t ha t w i t hout t he e xt r a t a x. I t w a s ki nd o f a n i nt e r e s t i ng t hought pr oc e s s I t w a s e xpe c t e d t ha t a l l of your nor m a l gove r nm e nt r e ve nue s w oul d ha ndl e t he ba s i c s T he r e f or e i f you c a m e up w i t h s om e t hi ng e xt r a l i ke t ha t t he y d be w i l l i ng t o pa y f o r i t B ut i f you s a i d, I w a nt e xt r a m one y f or t he nor m a l t hi ngs I f you t hi nk a bout t ha t m e s s a ge t h a t doe s n t r i ng t he s a m e w a y w i t h t he publ i c W M : U m huh. B S : S o w ha t y ou t r y t o do i s s how t ha t w e got e ve r yt hi ng e l s e c ove r e d, but t he s e e xt r a t hi ngs t ha t r a i s e t he ba r f o r t he qua l i t y o f l i f e w e w a nt t o ha ve m one y f or t hos e P e opl e bought t ha t m e s s a ge N ow i t w a s t hr e e hund r e d pe opl e a t t ha t t i m e i n 19 89, s o i t w a s a t e n ye a r pr ogr a m A s w e r e ge t t i ng t ow a r d t he e nd of t he t e n ye a r s a r ou nd 1997, w e w a nt e d t o g o out a ga i n f or a n e xt e ns i on [ of t hi s t a x] f or a not he r t e n ye a r s S o w e put t oge t he r [ a ] p r ogr a m ; m or e t r a i l w or k m o r e e nvi r onm e nt a l a c qui s i t i on a nd ot h e r r oa d t h i ngs T ha t pa s s e d by t w o

PAGE 13

1 2 t hi r ds t o one t hi r d vot e B e c a us e t he publ i c s e e i n g t he be ne f i t a nd s e e i ng w ha t s ha ppe ni ng t he y w e r e r e a l l y s uppor t i ve o f i t N ow p e opl e c a l l i t t he P e nny, or t he P e nny f or P i ne l l a s ha s got a r e a l l y hi gh r e c ogni t i on t o i t P e opl e j us t a r e f o r t ha t e ve n i f t he y a r e n t f o r ot he r t a xe s S o w e ve now s c he dul e d a t hi r d r e f e r e ndum w hi c h i s goi ng t o be ne xt s pr i ng i n M a r c h. A nd e ve n t hough t he r e a r e a l l of t he s e t a x i s s ue s a r ound a bout p r ope r t y t a xe s a nd t he r e s t t he y ve done a pol l a nd f ound t ha t e ve n w i t h a l l of t ha t de ba t e 63 pe r c e nt of t he pe opl e w oul d s t i l l vot e f or a pe nny e xt e ns i on. I t hi nk i t s got a di f f e r e nt um m I w oul dn t s a y di f f e r e nt a ge nda i t s go t a di f f e r e nt pe r c e pt i on t o i t Y ou r e f oc us e d on t hi ngs t ha t r a i s e t he ba r t hi ngs t ha t pe opl e a r e w i l l i ng t o r e a l l y pa y f or B ut i t s a di s t i nc t i on a s oppos e d t o t hos e t hi ngs t ha t you ve t hough t of a s ba s i c s T he y j us t t hi nk t he y s houl d be c ove r e d by ( c huc kl e s ) w h a t e ve r m one y you ve got Y ou s houl dn t ha ve t o a s k f or t ha t W M : W e l l i t s gr e a t t o s e e t ha t t he r e i s publ i c s uppor t f o r publ i c s pa c e B S : U m huh. W M : B ut w h a t a bout t he oppos i t i on t o t ha t ? B S : W e l l i n t he pa s t t he r e ha s n t r e a l l y be e n a ny. O t he r t ha n s om e one t ha t W e ve done s ur ve ys a nd t he r e w ol d be ba s i c a l l y, a t hi r d of t he popul a t i on I don t w on t t o s a y t h i s t he w r ong w a y t he y r e a l w a ys goi ng t o be vot i ng a ga i ns t s om e t hi ng. S o you know t ha t s t he ha r dc or e W e ve done s ur v e ys t he r e i s a l w a ys t he one t hi r d no, ( c huc kl e s ) T ha t s pr e t t y m uc h you r e no t goi ng t o be a bl e I w oul dn t s a y not be a bl e t o c ha nge t hos e pe opl e s m i nds T he y a r e j us t t he r e a nd t h a t s w ha t t he y a r e goi ng t o vot e f or B ut I w oul d s a y, ge ne r a l l y s pe a ki ng, i f you w o r k t he p r ogr a m r i ght t ha t s k i nd of t he vot i ng di s t r i but i on you ve go t W M : U m huh. I m j us t t hi nki ng, s om e pe opl e w oul d t hi nk a bout you know pr i va t e i nt e r e s t s l i ke be a c hf r ont de ve l opm e nt or s om e t hi ng t he y w oul d w a nt s uppor t o r pe r m i s s i on f or t ha t a s oppos e d t o a publ i c pa r k I w a s j us t w onde r i ng B S : I don t t h i nk I f ol l ow w ha t you r e s a yi ng. W M : W e l l i t s ot he r pe opl e I ve t a l ke d t o t he r e a r e I gue s s t hi s goe s ba c k t o one of t he pe opl e I i nt e r vi e w e d i n H i l l s bor ough C ount y w ho t a l ke d a bout p r ope r t y r i ght s a nd he s a i d, T hi s i s m y pr ope r t y I c a n do w i t h i t w ha t I w a nt P ubl i c de ve l opm e nt t ha t i nf r i nge s on m y pr i va t e pr ope r t y i s s om e t hi ng I m oppos e d t o.

PAGE 14

1 3 S o I w a s j u s t w onde r i ng, you t a l ke d a bout t he s upp or t f o r t he publ i c pr ope r t y, t he t r a i l s s ys t e m he r e i n P i ne l l a s C ount y. B S : U m huh. W M : A nd t he de ve l opm e nt i nt e r e s t s ; I s uppos e w a s t ha t s om e t hi ng t ha t w a s a c ount e r f or c e f or t ha t ? B S : W e l l i t pr oba bl y ha s a l ot t o do w i t h c om m uni c a t i on a nd unde r s t a ndi ng. I t h i nk i s w he r e I s e e F or i ns t a nc e on t he e a s t s i de of t he c ount y w e r e doi ng a not he r t r a i l on t he P r ogr e s s E ne r gy p r ope r t y W e ha ve a l e a s e w i t h P r ogr e s s E ne r gy f o r ni ne t y n i ne ye a r s t o bui l d a t r a i l t he r e W ha t you r e de a l i ng w i t h w he n you r de a l i ng w i t h ne w t r a i l s i s your de a l i ng w i t h c om m uni t y i m pa c t D o pe opl e t hi nk t hi s i s a good i de a ? N ow w e ha d t he be ne f i t of ha vi ng t he P i ne l l a s T r a i l i n, w i t h a h i s t or y t o i t S o t he r e f or e i t w a s due t o t he be ne f i t you c a n s how t ha t i t w o r ks T he r e w e r e n t c r i m e i s s ue s a nd t he va l ue o f l a nd w a s good. T he pr ope r t y [ s ol d ] m or e qui c kl y i f you w e r e ne a r t he t r a i l t hi ngs l i ke t ha t H ow e ve r i n t he ne w a r e a s [ w e ve ] ge ne r a l l y f oun d t ha t de ve l opm e nt i n t e r e s t s w a nt t o hook on t o t he t r a i l a nd a c t ua l l y bui l d pa r t o f i t t ha t e f f e c t s t he m S o i f a nyt hi ng i t s be e n m or e of t ha t pos i t i ve s i de a nd a c t ua l l y be e n good B e c a us e w he n you t hi nk a bout i t a t r a i l i s not a n e xpe ns i ve t hi ng t o bui l d a s oppos e d t o bui l di ng a r oa d. ( l a ughs ) T ha t s s om e t hi ng t o t hi nk a bout i f you w e r e a de ve l ope r B ut a l s o t he r e i s t he a m e ni t y a nd t he be ne f i t s t ha t you c a n ge t f r om i t Y ou c a n pr o m ot e t hi s a s s om e t hi ng of a s e l l i ng f e a t ur e S o on t ha t e a s t e r n s i de of t he c ount y w e ve got s e ve r a l de ve l ope r s t h a t w a nt t o s i t dow n w i t h us a n d f i nd ou t how t he y c a n a c t ua l l y bui l d pa r t of t he t r a i l f o r us I m s a yi ng t r a i l s t uf f t hi s ot he r t hi ng i s t he s a m e w a y. T he r e a r e a l l ki nds of a m e ni t i e s t ha t you de a l w i t h bi ke pe de s t r i a n, j us t ga t he r i ng p l a c e s W e upda t e d our W e ha ve a c ount yw i de t r a ns por t a t i on i m pa c t f e e or di na nc e W hi c h i s pr e t t y m uc h unc om m on. T ypi c a l l y i t s j ur i s di c t i on t o j ur i s di c t i on, but a l m os t t w e nt y ye a r s a go now w e e s t a bl i s he d w he n t he r e qui r e m e nt c a m e i n a nd a ga i n f r o m t ha t m a na ge d gr ow t h a c t w e s e t up a t r a ns por t a t i on i m pa c t f e e U s e d o ur c ount yw i de M P O p r ogr a m t o put i t t oge t he r c a us e w e ha d e ve r ybody a t t he t a bl e a l l of t he j u r i s di c t i ons [ W e ] c a m e up w i t h one i m pa c t f e e s o t he r e i s a c h a r t w he r e how m uc h you pa y f o r a s i ngl e f a m i l y hous e ve r s us a n a pa r t m e nt ve r s us a s hoppi ng c e nt e r w i l l be t he s a m e no m a t t e r w hi c h j u r i s di c t i on you r e i n I t s a l l c a l c ul a t e d t he s a m e T he r e a s on I m e nt i one d t ha t s o w e ha d i n pl a c e t h e r e f or e a c ount yw i de or di na nc e t ha t M P O w a s t he c us t odi a n of T he n a l l t he ne w t hi nki ng a bout l i va bl e c om m un i t i e s w i t h a n

PAGE 15

1 4 e m pha s i s on ot he r w a ys t o m ove a r ound be s i de s b e hi nd t he w he e l of a n a ut om obi l e t ha t w e s t a r t e d r e a l i z i ng t ha t w e w e r e doi ng a n upda t e e ve r y t w o ye a r s E ve r y t w o ye a r s w e ha d t o upda t e t he t r a ns por t a t i on i m pa c t f e e o r di na n c e S o w ha t w e di d w i t h t ha t upda t e [ i s ] s e t up a s pe c i a l c om m i t t e e of c i t i z e ns a nd de ve l ope r s t o l ook a t t ha t upda t e how you c oul d r e s pond t o l i va bl e c om m uni t y t hi ngs W ha t w e de ve l ope d t he n w a s a di f f e r e nt a pp r oa c h t o t he i m pa c t f e e Y ou s t i l l ha d a l l o f t he t ypi c a l r e qui r e m e nt s but you c oul d a l s o ge t c r e di t f or doi ng s i de w a l ks l a nds c a pi ng on t he s i de w a l ks Y ou c oul d do t r a i l w or k A l s o ho w you c oul d do c onne c t i vi t y f r om your pr oj e c t t o ot he r pr oj e c t s s o t ha t you w oul dn t ha ve t o ge t out ge t i n you r c a r go out of t he pa r k i ng l ot go ont o t he r oa d go dow n t hr e e bl oc ks a nd t he n go ba c k i n a ga i n. L i ke t ha t i n a c a r Y ou d ge t c r e di t f o r doi ng c onne c t i ons w a l ki ng, o r bi c yc l i ng w ha t e ve r c onne c t i ons be t w e e n your pr oj e c t Y ou d a c t ua l l y ge t i m pa c t f e e c r e di t f o r t ha t I t got a l i t t l e bi t of a c ha l l e nge l e ga l l y w i t h us t o w or k w i t h a t t o r ne ys be c a us e t he r e w e r e ot he r t hi ngs l i ke ga t he r i ng pl a c e s w hi c h a l s o l e nd t he m s e l ve s t o ha vi ng pe opl e out s i de w a l ki ng. T hos e w e r e s om e of t he t hi ngs w e c oul dn t gi ve t h e de ve l ope r c r e di t f or but t he n w e w e r e a l s o l ooki ng a t c onc ur r e nc y i s a l s o a not he r t o ol A l s o j us t ba s i c a l l y r e qui r i ng a de ve l ope r t o do i t be c a us e i t s a g ood i de a S o ou t of t ha t i m pa c t f e e upda t e w e de ve l ope d t hos e t hr e e i ni t i a t i ve s O ne w a s t he i m pa c t f e e or di na nc e w a s upda t e d, a nd w he r e a s a de ve l ope r you c oul d ge t c r e di t f or doi ng non a ut om obi l e i m pr ove m e nt s Y ou c oul d a l s o go i de nt i f y t hos e t hi ngs w hi c h w e r e n t e l i gi bl e f or t he i m pa c t f e e t he n w e a l s o ha d c onc ur r e nc y on t he c ha r t w hi c h s a i d s om e t hi ngs you c oul d do t hr ough a c o nc ur r e nc y pr oc e dur e a nd ge t a s i gn of f t o go f o r w a r d w i t h your de ve l opm e nt T he t hi r d w a s t he r e d be s om e t hi ngs f or you t o do f or a ny de ve l opm e nt t o be pe de s t r i a n f r i e ndl y. S o [ w e ] ha d t ha t i n p l a c e a s w e l l T ha t w a s l i ke a c oupl e of ye a r s a go, now W e pu t t ha t i n a nd t ha t w a s l i ke t he ot he r l e g of t he s t ool B e s i de us bui l di ng t hi ngs our s e l ve s on t h e publ i c s i de a nd t he n de ve l opm e nt ove r he r e I t a c t ua l l y m a de i t c om e t i e d t oge t he r H ow m a ny t i m e s ha ve you gone by s om e w he r e a n d you ve got a s i de w a l k i n f r ont of a de ve l opm e nt a nd t he r e i s no w a y t o ge t f r om t he s i de w a l k i nt o t he de ve l opm e nt ? A t be s t you ha ve t o w a l k t h r ough a pa r ki ng l ot bu t t he r e i s n t a ny pr ov i s i on t o ge t t o t he f r ont doo r of t he bu i l di ng. S o t ha t s w ha t you r e de a l i ng w i t h, s o i t s ki nd of r a m pe d up qui t e a bi t ove r t i m e t ha t s now be e n vi e w e d a s a m ode l or di na nc e a nd w e ve s e nt i t a r ound t o a l ot o f ot he r j ur i s di c t i ons I t w a s n t e a s y t o do I f you r e t r yi ng t o do s om e t hi ng di f f e r e nt t he p r e s s ur e i s t o not do t ha t T he a t t or ne y s us ua l l y poi nt i ng out you c a n t do i t be c a us e t he r e i s no pr e c e de nt f o r i t ( l a ughs ) Y ou know t ha t s or t o f t hi ng B ut w e ve now got i t i n pl a c e a nd now w e c a n w or k i n i t a nd i m pr ove on i t

PAGE 16

1 5 W M : O ka y. I j us t w a nt t o m a ke s ur e I unde r s t a nd you, you r e us i ng you r pow e r s o f pl a nni ng t o i n f l ue nc e t he de ve l ope r s t o m a ke t hi ng s m or e publ i c l y a c c e s s i bl e [ a nd] m ovi ng a w a y f r o m a ut om obi l e s a nd e nc our a gi ng [ pe de s t r i a n t r a f f i c ] ? B S : W e l l t he r e a r e t w o t hi ng s I unde r s t a nd w ha t y ou r e s a yi ng now Y ou r e put t i ng t he pl a nni ng c r e di t a bi l i t y i n t o s a y t hi s i s a good i de a E ve n t ha t a l one w oul d w or k be c a us e i t m e a ns t ha t t hi s i s s uppor t e d t o s a y t hi s i s a good i d e a E ve n t ha t a l one w oul d w or k, be c a us e i t m e a ns t h a t t hi s i s s uppor t e d by gove r nm e nt B ut i n a ddi t i on t o t ha t w e r e s a yi ng a nd i f you do i t on t he de ve l opm e nt s i de w e l l not onl y s uppor t you w i t h a ppr ove d s i t e pl a n or [ a n] a pp r ove d pr oj e c t w e a c t ua l l y gi ve you s om e c r e di t I ns t e a d of ha vi ng t o pa y a f e e f o r t hi s you c a n do t hi s I t be c a m e a c t ua l l y ki nd of s ophi s t i c a t e d be c a us e a s a n e xa m pl e one o f t he t hi ngs w e f ound i ns t e a d of t he de ve l ope r pa yi ng l e t s s a y a t w o hund r e d a nd f i f t y t hous a nd dol l a r i m pa c t f e e w hi c h t he y w r i t e a c he c k f o r a nd t he n i t s ba s i c a l l y out of t he i r de ve l opm e nt M e a ni ng [ t ha t ] i t s j us t a c os t of t he i r de ve l opm e nt I f he t ook t ha t s a m e t w o hundr e d a nd f i f t y t hous a nd dol l a r s a nd i nve s t e d i t i n i nf r a s t r uc t ur e a r ound t he s i t e t o m a ke t he s i t e m or e pe de s t r i a n a t t r a c t i ve i t t he n be c om e s a n a s s e t t o t he m a s oppos e d t o s om e t hi ng t ha t w a s pa i d out l i ke a c os t S o t o a ns w e r you r que s t i on t he pl a nni ng s uppor t w a s a good i de a bu t a l s o f r om t he ot he r s i de t he de ve l opm e nt i nt e r e s t s t he y c oul d s e e t he va l ue of i t [ a nd] t hought t hi s m a ke s s e ns e t o us T ha t s w hy ha vi ng t he de ve l ope r s i t t i ng a t t he t a bl e t o put t hi s pa c ka ge t oge t he r ki nd o f w or ks B e c a us e i n t he be gi nni ng t he y w e r e s a yi ng, W e don t w a nt t o do a nyt hi ng ne w a nd e xt r a t ha t s goi ng t o c os t us B ut w he n t he y r e a l i z e t ha t pr oc e dur e t he y c oul d ha ve a c r e di t pr oc e dur e t o do s om e t hi ng t ha t e ve n on t he de ve l opm e nt s i de t he y c oul d s e e t he be ne f i t of i t S o I gue s s I m s a yi ng i t w a s pa r t doi ng t hi ngs c o m i ng up w i t h t hi ngs t ha t t he de ve l ope r ge t s c r e di t f or m but a l s o f r om t h e pl a nni ng s i de t r yi ng t o f i nd w a ys t ha t t he c om m uni t y c a n do t hi ngs t o f ur t he r w ha t t he y w a nt T he c om m uni t y m e a ni ng t he de ve l ope r s a nd t he c i t i z e ns a nd e ve r ybody a t t he t a bl e hope f u l l y. W M : Y e a h, i t doe s s e e m l i ke t he de ve l ope r s w oul d vi e w t he s e pl a n s a s i nc r e a s i ng c os t s a nd [ m a ki ng i t ] di f f i c ul t f or t he m Y ou m e nt i one d t ha t t he l a nd us e a t t o r ne y w oul d s a y, T he r e i s no p r e c e de nt f or t hi s T e l l m e a bout t he r ol e of l a nd us e a t t o r ne ys i n t he pl a nni ng pr oc e s s B S : U m t he y r e p r e t t y m uc h goi ng t o be t he c ons e r va t i ve one s t o s a y, Y ou c a n do t hi s you c a n t do t ha t I t va r i e s f r om j u r i s di c t i on t o j u r i s di c t i on, w hi c h i s a l i t t l e bi t of a c ha l l e nge S o, I w oul d s a y s om e j ur i s di c t i ons w i l l s t r i c t l y a dhe r e t o i t I f a n a t t o r ne y s a ys you c a n t do t hi s t he y w on t do i t O t he r s w i l l t a ke t ha t a s a de vi c e a nd pr oc e e d f o r w a r d. I m not s ur e i f i t l i m i t s p l a nni ng or j us t ke e ps i t c o r r e c t S om e t i m e s i t l i m i t s you be c a us e a h t he r e a r e s om e t hi ngs you d l i ke t o do a nd w a nt t o do f or t he c om m uni t y [ but ]

PAGE 17

1 6 you c a n t do t he m be c a us e t he a t t or ne y w or ki ng w i t h you s a i d no A nd ye t i n t he ne xt j ur i s di c t i on ove r t he a t t o r ne y w oul d ha ve s a i d ye s S o t ha t s pr o ba bl y w he n t he ove r a l l body of know l e dge m ove s f or w a r d i n t hi s s or t of a d hoc w a y. M e a ni ng t ha t e ve nt ua l l y t ha t a l l be c om e s one i f e nough di f f e r e nt i f j ur i s di c t i ons a r e doi ng s om e di f f e r e nt de c i s i ons e v e nt ua l l y i t ge t s t h r ow n i n t he pot a nd s om e t hi ng m ove s f or w a r d, m a ybe a c om bi na t i on o f t hos e i n t e r m s of t he body pl a nni ng know l e dge W M : U m huh. B S : S o t he a t t or ne ys a r e pa r t of i t but I don t t hi nk i t s j us t bl a c k a nd w hi t e t ha t w ha t e ve r t he y s a y goe s a nd t he n you don t go i n t h a t di r e c t i on. B e c a us e t ypi c a l l y t he a t t or ne y i s gi vi ng you opi ni on ba s e d upon pr e c e de nt a nd t hi ngs done i n t he pa s t S o i f you t r y a nd do s om e t hi ng ne w or c ut t i ng e dge you r e ge ne r a l l y a r e not goi ng t o ha ve t he a t t or ne y c om f or t a bl e w i t h i t I n t h i s c a s e s a y on t h e i m pa c t f e e t hi ng t he y w e r e not w a nt i ng t o do t hi s t ha t a nd t he ot he r t hi ng [ T he r e ] w e r e s e ve r a l t hi ngs t he y di dn t l i ke a b out w ha t w e w e r e doi ng W e ha d t o t he n, put i t on hol d ge t w i t h t he C U T R G r oup [ pr onounc e d c ut t e r C e nt e r f or U r ba n T r a ns por t a t i on R e s e a r c h] a t U S F [ U ni ve r s i t y of S out h F l or i da ] a nd do a na t i ona l e va l ua t i on of t hi s t ha t a nd t he ot he r W e d i d f i nd s om e e xa m pl e s of a l m os t l i ke w ha t w e r e doi ng W e us e d t ha t t o de ve l op a c om f or t l e ve l f or our a t t o r ne ys S a yi ng L ook you c oul d do t hi s Y ou c oul d do t ha t W ha t w e r e t a l ki ng a bout i s s l i ght l y l i ke t ha t A l i t t l e bi t s i m i l a r t o i t S o you c a n e dge f or w a r d a l i t t l e bi t w i t hout goi ng i n t o s pe c i f i c s on t ha t B ut I t hi nk t ha t s w ha t you do i s you t a ke t he s e l i t t l e ba by s t e ps f or w a r d a s a pr of e s s i on, ba s e d upon s om e one doe s s om e t hi ng ne w he r e T h e n e ve r ybody e l s e doe s s om e t hi ng t w e nt y f i ve pe r c e nt ne w f r om t ha t a s a gr oup W M : O ka y. B ut be f or e I f or ge t you m e nt i one d t he C U T R G r oup a t U S F ? B S : O ka y. I know I c a n t u m [ i t s t he ] C e nt e r f or U r ba n T r a ns por t a t i on R e s e a r c h, s om e t hi ng l i ke t ha t . W M : O ka y. B S : T he y r e a n i ns t i t ut e t ha t ope r a t e s out of t he U n i ve r s i t y of S out h F l or i da O ur M P O P r ogr a m t ha t w a s r unni ng w i t h t hi s w e r e w a nt i ng t o ha ve a r e a di l y a va i l a bl e c ons ul t a nt t o he l p us be c a us e w e r e i n t he m i ddl e o f t hi s p r oj e c t W e l l C U T R i f you t a p i nt o t he m you di dn t ha ve t o us e t he c ons ul t a nt s e l e c t i on pr o c e dur e T ha t s w he r e you ha ve t o c hoos e t hr e e go t hr ough a dve r t i s i ng a nd s e l e c t i ng t hr e e [ t o s ubm i t b i ds ] a nd a l l of t ha t [ W i t h C U T R ] you c oul d j us t c ont a c t t he m di r e c t l y a s t he M P O A l s o t he y ha d a n e xpe r t i s e i n w ha t w e r e de a l i ng w i t h S o w e w e r e a bl e t o ge t t he m e nga ge d i n j us t a m a t t e r of w e e ks t o ke e p our pr og r a m goi ng

PAGE 18

1 7 W M : O ka y. B ut you t a l ke d a bout you know ge t t i ng your pl a ns a c c e pt e d. S o I m t hi nki ng you t a ke your p l a ns be f or e t he B oa r d of C ount y C om m i s s i one r s r i ght ? B S : Y e s W M : A nd t h e y a r e t he one s w ho s a y Y e s [ o r ] N o ? B S : Y e s W M : S o t e l l m e a bout w or k i ng w i t h t he B oa r d o f C ount y C om m i s s i one r s B S : Y ou ge ne r a l l y f i nd t ha t you w o r k w i t h t he m a t t w o l e ve l s O ne a s a boa r d, f o r you r a ppe a r i ng be f or e t he m i n a publ i c he a r i ng or a w or k s hop ge t t i ng r e a di ngs f r om t he m Y ou a l s o w or k w i t h t he m on a one on one ba s i s w he r e di f f e r e nt [ m e m be r s ] m i ght ha ve m or e i nt e r e s t t ha n ot he r s i n s pe c i a l t y a r e a s S o t ha t s a l s o pa r t of t he p r oc e s s but w ha t you a l s o f i nd i s t ha t t he c ount y c om m i s s i on a r e a nd i t s t he s a m e a s t he c i t y c om m i s s i on t he y r e your pol i c y boa r d t ha t s a c c ount a bl e t o t he pub l i c S o on t he pl a nni ng s i de w ha t w e ve a l w a ys f ound w e ha d t o do i s you ha ve t o c om e up w i t h t hi ngs a nd w or k w i t h t hi ngs t ha t you know w oul d w or k w i t h t h e boa r d a nd be a c c e pt a bl e t o t he m be c a us e t he y r e a c c ount a bl e t o t he publ i c T he y r e not goi ng t o vot e f or s om e t hi ng t ha t i s n t s uppor t a bl e by t he publ i c S o s om e pe opl e vi e w t ha t a s pol i t i c a l B ut m y ow n pe r s ona l phi l os ophy i s t ha t s ki nd of pa r t of t h e pr oc e s s T ha t s w ha t t he y a r e e l e c t e d f o r s o i t s not r e a l l y pol i t i c a l I t s j us t t ha t t ha t i s how you ge t your po l i c y de c i de d. S o I m or e vi e w i t a s pol i c y. A nd t ha t c ha nge s R i ght now t hi ngs a r e ve r y c ons e r va t i ve i n r e s pe c t t o de ve l opm e nt E l e c t i ve o f f i c i a l s f e e l i ng hi ghl y a c c ount a bl e f o r h ow de ve l opm e nt w or ks i n t he c om m uni t y, i t c a n t be j us t r a m pa nt l y j us t a ppr ove d not m a t t e r w ha t T he r e i s a l ot m or e a c c ount a bi l i t y i n r e s pe c t t o t ha t i n t he publ i c A nd be c a us e t he publ i c s c onc e r ne d a bout i t t he e l e c t e d s houl d be S o t ha t s you r a t m os phe r e now N ow I m not s ur e i f i t w a s e ve r d r a s t i c a l l y di f f e r e nt but you w oul d ha ve you c oul d l ook a t [ i t ] t e n ye a r s a go l e t s s a y, a nd p r oba bl y ha ve a l ot m or e w i l l i ngne s s t o be a ppr ovi ng t hi ngs t ha t now w oul dn t be a ppr ove d T he r e i s a l ot m or e c onc e r n a bout de ns i t y a nd i m pa c t T ha t s ki nd o f l i ke t hi s s t a t e w i de t r e nd no w w i t h l i ke t hi s H om e t ow n D e m oc r a c y t hi ng. B ut i t s got t o de a l w i t h t ha t c i t i z e n ba s e ( c l oc k c hi m e s ) a nd w ha t t he i r vi e w s a r e a nd I w oul d a c t ua l l y t hi nk a c oupl e of t r e nd t hi ngs I ve not i c e d w oul d be t ha t I t hi nk t he publ i c w oul d be m or e c onc e r ne d a bout de ve l opm e nt i n t he i r c om m uni t i e s t ha n i n t he pa s t

PAGE 19

1 8 A s a r e s ul t of t ha t i n a s hor t pe r i od of t i m e t he y be c om e m or e e duc a t e d a bout w ha t t he y n e e d t o know t o be e nga ge d. T he y a r e s or t of pa y i ng a t t e nt i on f r om ye a r t o ye a r [ a bout ] w ha t s goi ng on. T he r e f or e you r e l e c t e d of f i c i a l [ a nd] t he r e s t of us a r e a l o t m or e a c c ount a bl e f or w ha t w e r e doi ng Y ou c a n t j us t e xpl a i n s om e t hi ng a nd e ve r ybody s [ goi ng t o s a y, ] O h I di dn t know t ha t A nd you pr oc e e d t o do w ha t you w a nt e d t o do N ow t he y unde r s t a nd w ha t you r e t a l ki ng a bout a n d t he n t he y l l s a y, W e s t i l l don t a gr e e w i t h t ha t W ha t e ve r i t i s O r Y ou s houl d d o t hi s W hy don t you do t hi s ? S o I t hi nk t he r e i s a l o t m o r e of t ha t goi ng on. T ha t s pr oba bl y t he ba s i s of a l o t of t hi s r e f e r e ndum t hi nki ng a bout t y i ng i nt o pl a nni ng. I j u s t ki nd of vi e w t ha t a s a c ha l l e nge f or t he pl a nni ng pr o f e s s i on t o f i gu r e out H ow do you ge t a he a d of t ha t ? S o how do you r e a l l y f i nd out w ha t pe opl e a r e t hi n ki ng? N ot j us t goi ng i nt o a publ i c he a r i ng or w o r ks hop a nd s a yi ng, T hi s i s w ha t w e t hi nk you t hi nk B ut f i gur i ng out a w a y w he r e i t w o r ks be c a us e I a c t ua l l y t hi nk t ha t p e opl e a r e n t oppos e d t o de ve l opm e n t or a nyt hi ng. B ut t he y m a y not be s uppor t i ve o f w h a t a de ve l ope r s de ve l opm e nt i s ( c huc kl e s ) W M : U m huh. B S : T ha t s p r oba bl y t he d i f f e r e nc e I ve he a r d pe o pl e s a y, ove r a nd ove r W e don t m i nd t hi s pr ope r t y de ve l ope d bu t w e ha ve a n opi ni on a bout how i t w oul d ha ppe n. S o i f you don t ge t a he a d o f t ha t t he r e c oul d be no de ve l op m e nt P e opl e t hi nk t ha t s a l l t he r e i s e i t he r you de ve l op, or t he r e i s no de ve l opm e nt I t h i nk t ha t s pr oba bl y w he r e I w oul d hope t ha t t he de ve l opm e nt c om m uni t y w o r ks w i t h on [ t h a t ] B e c a us e t he y ha ve t a ke n a ve r y non ne got i a bl e pos i t i on you know Y ou di d t hi s be f or e Y ou ne e d t o do t hi s now ki nd of t hi ng. T he publ i c j us t doe s n t buy t ha t a ny m o r e T he r e f o r e t he e l e c t e d of f i c i a l s a r e n t a bl e t o vot e f or t ha t T ha t s p r oba bl y, I w oul d s a y, one of t he t hi ngs i n t he f ut ur e T he de ve l opm e nt c om m uni t y ki nd of be i ng m or e r e a s ona bl e w i t h w ha t t he y r e pus hi ng us i nt o. I m s a yi ng i t t ha t w a y be c a us e t ha t s t he w a y I s o m e t i m e s s e e i t W M : W e l l i t doe s s e e m ba s e d on m y l i m i t e d r e s e a r c h a nd obs e r va t i ons t ha t t he c ount y c om m i s s i one r s of t e n ope r a t e a nonym ous l y. T he pu bl i c s a t t e nt i on i s m o r e f oc us e d on s t a t e a nd na t i ona l i s s ue s O r t ha t s w ha t i s i n t he p r e s s P e opl e w i l l d i s c ove r t he y l l c om e hom e f r om w or k a nd a s i gn i n t he l ot ne xt t o t he m t ha t a nnounc e s s om e t hi ng. O nl y t he n do t he y ge t i nvol ve d i n publ i c pl a nni ng. B S : W ha t s i nt e r e s t i ng i s now w ha t you ha ve f or i ns t a nc e up i n t he a r e a w he r e I l i ve you w oul d ha ve t he O z ona c om m uni t y a l l ve r y f oc us e d on a n i ni t i a t i ve t he y put t oge t he r t he m s e l ve s A nd t he y a r e w or k i ng w i t h t he c ount y on a n ove r l a y t he r e B ut t he i r t hi nki ng i s t hi s i s not onl y good f or O z ona t he y w ou l d t he n l i ke t o s e e ot he r c om m uni t i e s doi ng

PAGE 20

1 9 t he s a m e t hi ng. A nd t he y a r e w i l l i ng t o ha ve s om e of t he pe opl e f r om t ha t c om m un i t y go t o ot he r c om m un i t i e s t o he l p t he m do t he s a m e t hi ng. S o i t s not a l l a bout i t us e d t o be a bout W e l l I s a w a s i gn ne xt doo r a nd I m goi ng t o be Si de 1 e nds ; s i de 2 be gi ns B S : a nd I ne e d t o be e nga ge d be c a us e I s a w [ a s i gn f or ] r e z oni n g. P e opl e now s e e t ha t w ha t s [ ha ppe ni ng] dow n t he r oa d s om e w he r e [ i n] a not he r c om m uni t y, a l s o a f f e c t s t he m A nd t he y a r e w i l l i n g t o be j us t e nga ge d i n t ha t a s w e l l a s [ w ha t s ha ppe ni ng w i t h] t he ne xt door ne i ghbor I t hi nk t ha t s t he m or e m ode r n s i t ua t i on w e r e de a l i ng w i t h W M : S o t he publ i c i s m or e you d s a y, t ha t t he pu bl i c i s m or e e nga ge d? B S : Y e s de f i ni t e l y M or e e nga ge d a nd a l s o m or e i nf or m e d. I t hi nk t he pl a nni ng pe opl e t ha t don t t a ke t ha t i n t o a c c ount w oul d be t he n o f f t he m a r k w he n t he y ge t t o t he c i t y c om m i s s i on or t he c ount y c om m i s s i on. [ T he y] a r e m a ki ng r e c om m e nda t i ons t he n t he y ve ha d s om e pr e t t y i nt e l l i ge nt [ pe opl e f r om t he ] publ i c e xpl a i ni ng w ha t t he i r vi e w s a r e a nd you ve got t o ha ve t o t a ke t ha t i nt o a c c ount Y ou c a n t j us t w r i t e t he m o f f a s not be i ng i nf or m e d o r a N I M B Y [ N ot I n M y B a c k Y a r d] I t s ki nd o f i n t e r e s t i ng. I a c t ua l l y t hi nk t he t e r m N I M B Y i s be c om i ng not a r e l e va nt t e r m be c a us e t he N I M B Y t he y r e t r y i ng t o s a y t ha t N I M B Y w oul d be l i ke H om e t ow n D e m oc r a c y. Y e t i f you t hi nk a bout i t i t s s o br oa d you c a n t c a l l i t N I M B Y a nym or e ( c huc kl e s ) I t s ha r d t o s a y, W e l l he s onl y c onc e r ne d a bout [ w ha t ] hi s ne xt doo r ne i ghbor i s t r yi ng t o do. N ow w he n t he guy i s a l s o c onc e r ne d a bout dow n t he ot he r s i de of t he c i t y o r t he c ount y, you c a n t c a l l t ha t N I M B Y ( l a ughs ) W M : W e l l i t s k i nd of not i n m y ba c k ya r d by e xt e ns i on, be c a us e w ha t ha ppe ns w a y dow n t he r oa d w i l l e f f e c t w ha t s [ i n m y ba c k ya r d] B S : Y ou ha ve t o [ t hi nk of ] m a ny w a ys f o r not i n m y c om m uni t y. I f you t hi nk a bout i t i t s got a w hol e di f f e r e nt i t s ounds m uc h m or e e n l i ght e ne d, or s om e t hi ng. W hi c h i s ki nd of w ha t s goi ng on O f c our s e i t a f f e c t s i f a guy ha s a p r obl e m or a w om a n ha s a pr obl e m w i t h t he ne xt door ne i ghbor t hi ng, w e l l [ nobody ] e l s e i s w a t c hi n g t ha t E ve n t he c i t y c om m i s s i one r o r t he c ount y c om m i s s i one r o r t he ge ne r a l publ i c a r e goi ng t o ha ve a ha r d t i m e ge t t i ng e nga ge d i n t ha t B ut i f i t s b r oa de r di s c us s i on t he n e ve r ybody i s i nt o i t

PAGE 21

2 0 W M : W e l l um I don t w a nt t o put w or ds i nt o yo ur m out h but i t s e e m s l i ke you r e pl e a s e d by t ha t by m or e pub l i c i nvol ve m e nt I s t h a t a c or r e c t a s s um pt i on on m y pa r t ? B S : Y e s T ha t w a s t he r e a s on I got i n t o pl a nni ng i n t he f i r s t pl a c e I a l w a ys f e l t t ha t you w a nt e d t o pl a n f or w ha t t he pe opl e w a nt e d W ha t y ou t r i e d t o do w a s s i t w i t h t he c om m uni t y a nd f i gur e out w he r e t he y a r e t r yi ng t o go a nd de ve l op a p l a n f o r t ha t T ha t f or m e I t hi nk i t s w e l c om e I t s a bi g c ha l l e nge b e c a us e t he n you ve t he n got t o f i gur e out w ha t t hi s r oom f ul l o f pe opl e w a nt t o do? A nd you ve g ot t o f i gu r e t ha t out know i ng t ha t t he r e i s goi ng t o be m a ny di f f e r e nt vi e w s bot h be f or e a nd a f t e r t he d i s c us s i on. N ot e ve r yone s goi ng t o you r e ne ve r go i ng t o de a l w i t h hundr e d pe r c e nt of s om e t hi ng. W M : U m huh. B S : Y ou ki nd of hope you c a n ki nd of pul l i t t oge t he r B ut t ha t s w ha t pl a nni ng i s s uppos e d t o be W M : W e l l t ha t br i ngs up a que s t i on I w a s goi ng t o s a ve t i l t he e nd, but i f you c oul d ( a nd m a ybe now w oul d be a good t i m e t o do i t ) but t e l l m e how you got i nt o pl a nni ng? W ha t a t t r a c t e d you t o i t ? [ W ha t ki nd o f ] t r a i ni ng di d you go t hr ough? B S : O ka y. I s t a r t e d out goi ng i nt o c ol l e ge [ s t udyi n g] e ngi ne e r i ng [ but ] m ove d i nt o phys i c s S o I w oul d up w i t h a ba c he l or s de gr e e f r om F l or i da S t a t e i n phys i c s A s I w a s gr a dua t i ng I w a s l ooki ng a t w ha t t o do W he t he r t o pur s ue t he phys i c s i n t e r m s o f a M a s t e r s or a P h. D W he t he r t o go out i nt o t he f i e l d a nd a ppl y t ha t o r do s om e t hi ng e l s e I s t a r t e d l ooki ng a t pl a nni ng a s s om e t hi ng t ha t [ I c oul d do] I w a s i nt e r vi e w i ng a nd f ound t ha t w he n I w a s i nt e r vi e w i ng w i t h a phys i c s ba c kgr ound t ha t t he y w e r e onl y i nt e r e s t e d i n t e c hni c a l t hi ngs you di d. Y ou w e r e vi e w e d a s a n e gghe a d, or j us t not [ t he y di dn t c ons i de r ] a ny of t he hum a n a s pe c t T ha t s t a r t e d m a ki ng m e ne r vous be c a us e I a l s o ha d j obs t ha t w e r e t e c hni c a l j o bs w he r e I s a w pe opl e h a d c ha nge d ove r t i m e a nd be c a m e m or e t e c hni c a l e ve n t ha t s t a r t e d out [ a s ] w e l l r ou nde d [ i ndi v i dua l s ] a nd be c a m e m o r e t e c hni c a l I t hought a bout i t [ a nd] t hough t ha t di dn t s ound v e r y us e f ul s o I w e nt a nd l ooke d a t pl a nni ng a nd d i d a n i nt e r ns hi p i n pl a nni ng be f o r e I w e nt t o t he pl a nni ng s c hool a nd f ound t ha t i t w a s m uc h m o r e ba s e d on c om m uni c a t i on a nd w or ki ng w i t h pe opl e a nd t ha t s i de of t hi ngs I a l s o s a w w i t h pl a nni ng t ha t you h a d t e c hni c a l pa r t s t o i t w he r e you di dn t ha ve t o l e a ve be hi nd w ha t I ha d a l r e a dy l e a r ne d. S o I t hought t ha t w oul d r e a l l y be p r e t t y c ool t o s t a r t w or ki ng w i t h t he c om m uni t i e s a nd ki nd of s or t o f f ul f i l l i ng t ha t opt i on, [ a nd] he l pi ng pe opl e out I f I ha d s t uc k w i t h phys i c s or s om e t hi ng i t w oul d ha ve be e n ve r y na r r ow a nd c l e a r l y de f i ne d. B a s e d on w ha t I w a s doi ng onl y a nd t ha t w a s i t S o t he m o r e I got i nt o t he pl a nni ng t he m or e I r e i nf or c e d [ m y de c i s i on] S o I got t hr ough

PAGE 22

2 1 A l ot of t he p l a nni ng c our s e s i n t he pl a nni ng pr og r a m w ha t w e r e f oc us e d on c om m un i t y t ype t hi ngs B ut I a l s o f ound t ha t I ne ve r l e f t be hi nd t he phys i c s pa r t e s pe c i a l l y w he n I m i n t he t r a ns por t a t i on a r e a t he y ha ve a l l of t he s e c om put e r m ode l s A f t e r a n hour s w or t h o f e xpl a i ni ng a nd de t a i l i ng, e ve r yone i s p r e t t y m uc h s now e d i n t o w h a t s goi ng on a nd I m s t i l l t he r e ( l a ughs ) W M : ( l a ughs ) B S : I m not s now e d. S o i t ha s a be ne f i t t o i t I c a n ge t pa s t t he t e c hni c a l s t uf f a nd ge t t o w ha t r e a l l y i s a m or e m e a ni ngf u l de c i s i on m a ki ng, w ha t e ve r t ha t m i ght be Y ou know w ha t you put i n t he c om put e r you ge t out you ge t t he i nf l ue nc e of t ha t ki nd of c om put e r S o t he t e c hni c a l pa r t s a r e onl y a t ool t he y r e not s uppos e d t o di r e c t e ve r yt hi ng. S o m y t e c hni c a l ba c kgr ound i s us e f ul t ha t w a y. W M : U m huh. Y ou s a i d you w e nt t o pl a nni ng s c hool ? W he r e w a s t ha t ? B S : F l or i da S t a t e W M : O ka y. B S : I w a s a t t he t i m e I w a s gr a dua t i ng w i t h a phys i c s de gr e e a t F l or i da S t a t e T he y w e r e e s t a bl i s hi ng a pl a nni ng pr ogr a m I t w a s a bout one ye a r ol d. S o I j us t e n r ol l e d t he r e a nd s t uc k w i t h i t I t w a s a t w o ye a r pr ogr a m W M : W e l l i t doe s s e e m l i ke t hi s w oul d be a good pl a c e t o c om bi ne t he s c i e nt i f i c a nd t he s oc i a l a s pe c t s of your [ i nt e r e s t s ] B S : I t doe s a nd I m not goi ng t o s a y you c oul dn t a l s o do t ha t w i t h s om e ot he r pr of e s s i ons I ve be e n, f o r i ns t a nc e I d w or k s om e t i m e s w i t h pe opl e i n e ngi ne e r i ng. I t s r e a l l y r e f r e s hi ng w he n you ge t w i t h s om e e ngi ne e r i ng pe opl e w ho ha ve t ha t s a m e a ppr oa c h of w or k i ng w i t h de s i gni ng a pr oj e c t t ha t [ i s ] pe opl e w a nt t o do Y ou ha ve ot he r e ngi ne e r s c om e i n w i t h t he i r bi g t h i c k m a nua l a nd t he y a r e goi ng t o t e l l pe opl e w ha t i t i s S o i t i s not j us t p l a nni ng pr o f e s s i on t ha t ha s t ha t r e w a r d o r oppor t uni t y t o w or k w i t h pe opl e B e c a us e I ve be e n i n t he pl a n ni ng s i de w he r e you d ha ve [ pe opl e ] c om e i n a nd know w ha t t he y w a nt e d t o de s i gn f o r t he c om m uni t y a nd i t di dn t m a t t e r w ha t t he c om m uni t y t hought T he y kne w t hi s w a s w ha t t he c om m uni t y w oul d l i ke i f t he y j us t unde r s t ood [ t he e ngi ne e r ] be t t e r ( c huc kl e s ) W M : S o w he n you f i ni s he d up a t F S U di d you c o m e r i ght he r e t o C l e a r w a t e r ? B S : A c t ua l l y w ha t i t w a s be f o r e I w e nt t o pl a nni n g s c hool I w e nt ove r t o H i l l s bor ough C ount y a nd ha d a j ob t he r e f or t he s um m e r a s a pl a nni ng i nt e r n. S o I k i nd of s a w w ha t

PAGE 23

2 2 pl a nni ng w a s a bout T he n ha l f w a y t hr ough t he pl a nni ng pr ogr a m t he r e i s w ha t t he y c a l l a n i nt e r ns hi p, du r i ng t he s um m e r I i nt e r ne d a t t he r e gi ona l pl a nni ng c ounc i l dow n he r e t he T a m pa B a y R e gi ona l P l a nni ng C ounc i l T he n w he n I gr a dua t e d, m y f i r s t ye a r out w a s a ye a r w i t h t he r e gi ona l pl a nni ng c ounc i l T he n I g ot a c ha nc e t o c om e he r e a s t he di vi s i on he a d f or pl a nni ng. O ne of t he t hi ngs I f ound w he n I w a s a t t he r e gi on a l pl a nni ng w a s [ t ha t i t w a s ] a good ove r a l l vi e w of t hi ngs but I w a s n t s ur e i f I w a s go i ng t o be ga i ni ng m o r e s ki l l s a f t e r t he f i r s t ye a r I t l ooke d l i ke I w a s goi ng t o be doi ng a n upda t e of w ha t I di d t he f i r s t ye a r I f you w e r e i nvol ve d i n t he l oc a l pr og r a m you w e r e e nga ge d i n w ha t w a s ha ppe ni ng. I r e a l i z e d t ha t s [ w ha t I w a nt e d] I m e nt i one d e a r l i e r a bout w a nt i ng t o w or k w i t h t he c om m i t t e e s W he n I w a s i n t he r e gi on a l ba s i s I w a s n t a bl e t o be a s e nga ge d i n t he c om m uni t y a s I w a nt e d S o I r e a l i z e d t ha t you r e xpe r i e nc e w oul d be c um ul a t i ve a t t he l oc a l l e ve l w hi l e your e xpe r i e nc e a t t he r e gi ona l ba s i s w oul d be r e pe t i t i v e Y ou w oul dn t ge t a n oppor t un i t y f o r a ne w e x pe r i e nc e O nc e you ha d f i gu r e d out how t o do e ve r yt hi ng you d j us t do i t ove r a ga i n. I m not s a yi ng t ha t c r i t i c a l l y, I w a s j us t l ook i ng f or a not he r l e ve l of e nga ge m e nt W M : Y ou w a nt e d m or e o f a c ha l l e nge a nd oppor t u ni t y. B S : A ha nds on ki nd of f e e l W M : S o you c a m e he r e i n 1970? B S : 1970. W M : W e l l t hi s i s a bi g que s t i on, but how ha ve yo u s e e n t hi s c om m uni t y, I gue s s P i ne l l a s C ount y, c ha nge i n t hos e t h i r t y s i x ye a r s ? B S : Y e s [ i t s c ha nge d] qui t e a bi t t hough I t hi nk i t s a l l be e n good I m not goi ng t o s a y i t s a l l be c a us e of pl a nni ng b ut t he r e w a s qui t e a bi t of t ha t Y ou c a n s e e a l ot of t he t hi ngs I w oul d ve hope d w e w oul d pr e s e r ve [ t ha t ] w e di d p r e s e r ve W e pr oba bl y di d, f a i r l y e a r l y on but s om e de ns i t y l i m i t s i n a nd s om e t hi ng s l i ke t ha t s o e ve n t hough pe opl e f e e l i t s c onge s t i on a nd how m uc h de ve l opm e nt w e ve ha d doubl e t ha t ve r y e a s i l y. I ki nd of t h i nk t ha t t he c ount y s gone a l ong w a y i n t e r m s o f i t s de ve l opm e nt a nd i t s be e n a n e m pha s i s on qua l i t y of l i f e a l l a l on g, w hi c h I f e e l pr e t t y c o m f or t a bl e a bout I nt e r e s t i ngl y t hough, I w oul d t h i nk ba c k on t he r e w e r e s om e i ni t i a t i ve s t ha t I w oul d ha ve be e n or w e w oul d ha ve be e n pr opos i ng a nd w or ki ng w i t h. I m not s ur e i f w e di d i t i t w oul d ha ve be e n a good i de a or not I l l gi ve you a n e xa m pl e I n 1972 w e ha d a p r opos a l f or a m ono r a i l i n t he c o unt y, a c om pl e t e l oop.

PAGE 24

2 3 W M : U m huh. B S : I t di dn t go a nyw he r e S o you w onde r i f w e h a d be e n s uc c e s s f ul i n pr om ot i ng t ha t t he n w ha t w oul d t he c ount y ha ve l ooke d l i ke ? I m not s ur e i t w oul d ha ve be e n good be c a us e t hos e t hi ngs do pr om ot e de ns i t y a nd t h i ng s l i ke t ha t S o you s om e t i m e s ki nd of r e a l i z e w ha t y ou r e r u nni ng w i t h, you ha ve t o r e t hi nk. I l l gi ve you a n e xa m pl e I n t he m i d 1970s ( be c a us e I w a s i nvol ve d i n t r a ns por t a t i on a s w e l l ) I w a s t he s t a f f di r e c t or f or ( a m ong m y no r m a l r e s pons i bi l i t i e s a s pl a nni ng di r e c t or a nd s o on) t he e xpr e s s w a y a ut hor i t y S o w e ha ve a m a j or e xpr e s s w a y r e f e r e ndum i n our c ount y t o bui l d a nor t h s out h e xpr e s s w a y. I be c a m e one of t he ke y pe opl e i n t he s pe a ke r s bu r e a u, t o go out a nd pr e s e nt t hi s t hi ng [ t he nor t h s out h e xpr e s s w a y] I t w a s vot e d dow n 8 t o 1. S o you c a n i m a gi ne i t w a s n t a ve r y pl e a s a nt e xpe r i e nc e be i ng on t he s pe a ke r s bu r e a u, c a us e you c oul d s e e t he vot e be f or e i t w a s goi ng t o ha ppe n. ( c huc kl e s ) B ut t ha t r e a l l y i nf l ue nc e d t he c ount y s f ut u r e de ve l opm e nt T ha t m e a nt w e w e r e not goi ng t o be doi ng t ol l r oa ds or e xpr e s s w a ys t hr ough t he c ount y T he n t he y s a i d, W e r e goi ng t o f oc us on [ H i ghw a y] U S 19 a nd t he e xi s t i ng c or r i do r a nd m a ke t ha t w or k T ha t s goi n g t o be i t T he r e f o r e I w a s out t he r e p r om ot i ng t he i de a o f t hi s w hol e e xpr e s s w a y pr ogr a m but t he n w ha t you ha ve t o do r e t h i nk w he r e you a r e goi ng. S o a s a pr o f e s s i ona l you don t ke e p t a l ki ng m or e a bout e xpr e s s w a ys [ Y ou s a y, ] O ka y, I unde r s t a nd w he r e w e a r e W e l l m ove t o t ha t I n 1990, w he n w e put t he P i ne l l a s T r a i l i n or t he l a t e e i ght i e s I w a s n t r e a l l y s ur e i t t ha t w a s a good or no t you know ? I t w a s j us t t h i ngs l i ke t he w i dt h o f t he t r a i l I t w a s goi ng t o be f i f t e e n f e e t w i de I w a s t hi nki ng T ha t s ound s m or e l i ke a r oa d. I t s houl d be na r r ow e r l i ke t e n f e e t w i de I now know t ha t f i f t e e n [ f e e t ] i s r e a l l y good be c a us e i t m i ni m i z e s c onf l i c t s I a l s o c oul d s e e t he va l ue of a m a j or pr opone nt of t he t r a i l W a y ba c k i n t he be gi nni ng I w a s ki nd of on t he f e nc e a b out i t S o a s a pl a nne r I s or t of a dj us t e d. A ga i n, w i t h t ha t c om m uni t y e nga ge m e nt you s a y, O ka y, t hi s i s w he r e w e r e r e a l l y goi ng. I t i s n t l i ke I ha d a m a j or ph i l os ophi c a l c ha nge I t s m or e t ha t I j us t be t t e r unde r s t ood di r e c t i ona l c ha nge s a nd t hi nk t ha t s w h e r e t he pl a ne r m or e t ha n a nybody e l s e ha s t o ki nd of ha ve t he i r e ye s a nd e a r s ope n a nd be w i l l i ng t o be f l e xi bl e a nd a dj us t t hi ngs a nd t o he l p out w i t h t hi s ne w d i r e c t i o n. H ow do you ge t t he r e ? A s oppos e d t o s t i l l poi nt i ng out t o pe opl e t ha t i t w a s a m i s t a ke be c a us e i t s di f f e r e nt f r o m be f or e or s om e t hi ng l i ke t ha t I t s a r e a l c ha l l e nge t o be ope n a nd unde r s t a nd w ha t t he s e ne w t hi ngs a r e s o a s t o he l p t he m I m us t s a y not a l l ne w t h i ngs a r e good you know you ha ve t o w o r k w i t h t ha t a nd know w ha t you know w he n t o m a ke t hos e ki nd s of j udge m e nt s

PAGE 25

2 4 W M : I n t a l ki ng a bout how t he c ount y ha s c ha nge d ove r a l l one of t he t h i ngs I r e a d i s t ha t t he r e w e r e i ni t i a l l y a l ot o f pl a c e s f o r pe opl e t o s p e nd t he w i nt e r he r e a nd um r e t i r e m e nt c om m uni t i e s but t he c ount y w a s m ovi n g m or e t ow a r ds hi gh w a ge i ndus t r y o r s om e t hi ng l i ke t ha t A m I unde r s t a ndi ng t ha t c or r e c t l y? B S : W e l l i t s r e a l l y ha r d t o ye a h w e f or i ns t a n c e i n t he 1970s w e w e r e s t i l l a m a j or da i r y pr oduc e r W e s t i l l ha d a l o t of c i t r us [ pr oduc t i on] O ve r t i m e t he de ve l opm e nt i nt e r e s t s r e m ove d t ha t B ut a t t he t i m e w e a l s o ha d m a j o r c or po r a t i ons l i ke H one yw e l l a nd i ndus t r i e s l i ke t ha t W ha t ha ppe ns i s ove r t i m e ( w hi c h i s s om e t hi ng n ot t o m a ny pe opl e r e a l i z e ) w e ha ve ha d a f oc us on t our i s m a nd a l w a ys ha ve B ut w e ve a l s o ha d a l ot of i ndus t r i e s i n t he c ount y. T he y r e not not i c e a bl e be c a us e t he y a r e l i ke c l e a n i ndus t r i e s S o pe opl e don t not i c e t he m t ha t m uc h W e r e s t i l l l i ke s om e of t he m a j or um I ve f or g ot t e n w ha t c a t e gor i e s t h e y a r e but w e r e s t i l l l i ke num be r one i n m a nuf a c t ur i ng e m p l oym e nt of c e r t a i n ki nds o f t e c hnol ogi e s P e opl e don t t hi nk o f t ha t i n P i ne l l a s C ount y. W e ve got a w hol e i ndus t r i a l be l t i n t he m i ddl e o f t he c ount y M os t of our va c a nt l a nd, ye t t o be de ve l op e d, i s i n t he m i ddl e of t he c ount y [ z one d a s ] i ndus t r i a l c om m e r c i a l l a nd. W hi c h i s k i nd of i nt e r e s t i ng i n t ha t ( c huc kl e s ) your f ut ur e i s s t i l l t he r e i n t e r m s of t he e ngi ne you w a nt t o r un i t w i t h. B ut I w oul d s a y w e s t i l l c ont i nue t o be r e a l l y i nt e r e s t e d i n i ndus t r y. B e c a us e w e ki nd of w he n I m e nt i one d t he w hol e i de a a bout t he e l e m e nt l i ve w or k a nd pl a y t he e m pha s i s i s on good j obs T he r e w a s a de ba t e a w hi l e a go a bout A r e w e doi ng t ha t ? A r e w e [ e m pha s i z i ng i ndus t r i a l j obs ] a t t he e xpe ns e of t he t our i s t i ndus t r y? I d p r oba bl y s a y, not T ha t s not r e a l l y goi ng t o go a w a y. B ut i t s d oe s n t ha ve t o be a n e i t he r or p r opos i t i on. A l t hough s om e pe opl e t hi nk W ha t a r e you t r yi ng t o pr o m ot e ? W he r e w oul d you put your pr om ot i ng m one y? B ut you don t ne c e s s a r i l y t he m one y us e d t o p r om ot e t ou r i s m you don t ne c e s s a r i l y pr om ot e i ndus t r y t he s a m e w a y, s o I m not s ur e t he t w o c om pe t e B ut I t hi nk now w i t h ou r de ve l opm e nt pr e s s ur e t h e r e w a s pr e s s ur e t o s a y, R e z one i ndus t r i a l l a nds t o r e s i de nt i a l a nd c om m e r c i a l W e j us t r e c e nt l y e s t a bl i s he d a pol i c y s a yi ng t ha t w e r e not goi ng t o do t ha t I t ha s t o be hi ghl y j us t i f i e d i f you r e goi ng t o m ove f r om i ndus t r i a l t o s om e t hi ng e l s e Y ou c a n t put i n our c ount y t he r e i s no m o r e e l bow r oom t o pu t i n ne w i ndus t r i a l l a nds s o you v e got t o hol d on t o w ha t you ve got T he pr e s s ur e w a s t ha t t he r e i s i ndus t r i a l l a nd t ha t c a n be us e d f or i ndus t r y. H ow e ve r um i f t he y ve got t he opt i on o f c onve r t i n g i t or s e l l i ng i t f or hi gh de ns i t y r e s i de nt i a l or f or W a l M a r t s a nd t hi ngs t he n t he p r i c e of t ha t l a n d i s not i n t he i ndus t r i a l c a t e gor y t he pr i c e of t ha t l a nd i s hi ghe r i n t he s e ot he r oppor t uni t i e s W ha t w e r e a l i z e d w a s i f w e s a y

PAGE 26

2 5 i t s of f t he t a bl e f or t hos e c ha nge s t he n you m a ke t ha t l a nd m or e r e a s ona bl y pr i c e d ove r t i m e ba c k t o t he i ndus t r i a l us e t ha t you w a nt S o t he r e a r e a l ot of dyna m i c s t ha t ha ve be e n goi n g on ove r t he pa s t c oupl e o f ye a r s i n our c ount y on t ha t B e c a us e w e w a nt t o ke e p i ndus t r i e s a nd w e w a nt t o a dd i ndus t r i e s W M : U m huh. Y ou s a y t he r e i s p r e s s ur e t o c ha nge t he i ndus t r i a l z one d l a nd t o [ l a nd z one d f or ] r e s i de nt i a l W ho a ppl i e s t ha t p r e s s ur e ? B S : T w o g r oups t he pr ope r t y ow ne r s t ha t w a nt t o m a ke m or e m one y of f of t he l a nd, a nd obvi ous l y t he pe opl e t ha t a r e i n t he c ondo i ndus t r i a l de ve l opm e nt bus i ne s s t he W a l M a r t c om m uni t y. N ot j us t t he m but t he c om m e r c i a l pe o pl e t ha t w a nt t o pr om ot e t ha t S o you ve go t a n e s t a bl i s he d i ndus t r y o f de ve l opi n g t hi ngs a nd t ha t s om e t i m e s a pr ope r t y ow ne r w i l l be s i t t i ng t he r e t hi nk i ng, I d l i ke t o do t hi s A nd t he y l l [ t he de ve l opm e nt c om m uni t y] c om e i n a nd go Y e a h, but you l l ge t m uc h m or e a be t t e r r e t ur n f o r your l a nd i f you do t hi s t ha t a nd t he ot he r t hi ng. S o you ve go t t hi s de ve l opm e nt i ndus t r y g r oup t ha t w i l l a l w a ys be pus hi ng f or t he hi ghe s t a nd be s t us e ( i n t he i r m i nd ) o f w ha t e ve r t h e l a nd i s A nd i t s us ua l l y not i ndus t r i a l Y ou know you c a n j us t do m or e a nd s e l l m or e T he r e f or e i f you ha ve i t w i de ope n a nd you ke e p s a yi ng, W ha t e ve r you w a nt t o do w i t h t ha t pr ope r t y W e l l ha ve a m i xe d us e t hi ng w he r e y ou c a n do [ r e s i de nt i a l ] c om m e r c i a l or i ndus t r i a l Y ou know you r e pr oba bl y not goi ng t o ha ve m uc h i ndus t r y, be c a us e t ha t s not a r e ve nue p r oduc e r c om pa r e d t o t he ot he r s A nd ye t f o r t he ove r a l l c om m uni t y i t s pr oba bl y t he bi gge s t r e ve nue pr oduc e r be c a us e i t s t ha t s w he r e you r j obs a r e f or t he l ong ha ul f o r t he ove r a l l c om m uni t y be ne f i t B ut f or t he pr ope r t y ow ne r i t s not a nd f o r t he de v e l ope r i t s not W M : S o t he n a ga i n t ha t ge t s ba c k t o publ i c ve r s us pr i va t e i nt e r e s t s I j us t w a nt t o m a ke s ur e I un de r s t a nd you but i n l o oki ng a t r e z oni ng t he i ndus t r i a l l a nd t o ot he r us e s t he pl a nni ng c om m i s s i on i s s a yi ng, N o, ke e p i t z one d f o r i ndus t r i a l A nd t he ot he r s t he de ve l opm e nt i ndus t r y, i s s a yi ng, N o c ha nge t he z oni ng f o r r e s i de nt i a l or c om m e r c i a l S o a l l o f t he s e pe opl e a r e t a l ki ng t o t he c ount y B oa r d of C om m i s s i one r s r i ght ? B S : Y e s W M : S o, t e l l m e

PAGE 27

2 6 B S : S o w ha t ha ppe ne d w a s w e r e a l i z e d t ha t w a s t he pr e s s ur e t ha t w a s out t he r e W e r e a l i z e d t ha t t he be ne f i t t o t he t o t he i ndus t r i a l l a nd w a s a c om m uni t y be ne f i t T he r e f o r e w e ne e de d a c om m uni t y w i de pol i c y on t ha t a bout pr e s e r vi ng i t U nl e s s i t ha d s om e ove r a l l be ne f i t i f you w e r e goi ng t o c ha nge i t B ut i t ha d t o be a be ne f i t no t j us t t o t he pr ope r t y ow ne r but or t he pe opl e t ha t pr opos e d s o m e t hi ng. I t ha d t o be a be ne f i t t o t he c om m uni t y. I t w a s n t t o s a y w e d ne ve r r e z one i t W e j us t s a i d t he t e s t s ha d t o be a l i t t l e bi t hi ghe r t ha t oh W e w a nt t o do t hi s I t ha d t o do w i t h ye a r s a go w e ha d a c ount y c om m i s s i one r w ho t he n w e nt t o D C A S t e ve S e ve r t ( ? ? ) H e ki nd o f e s t a bl i s he d a n a ppr oa c h f or t he c ount y w hi c h w e s t i l l r un w i t h. T he pr e s um pt i on i s t he pl a n i s j us t i f i a bl e a nd good, c a l l e d pl a n de s i gna t i on. Y ou ha ve t o s how a s a de ve l ope r or pr ope r t y ow ne r w h y you w a nt t o c ha nge i t w hy i t s a good i de a T ypi c a l l y you r e f o r c e d i nt o t he ot he r r ol l Y ou ha ve t o e xpl a i n t o t he de ve l ope r w hy t he i r pr opos a l i s n t good. S o t he y j us t s a i d t he pl a n s va l i d t ha t s be e n i n pl a c e f or t w e nt y or t hi r t y ye a r s T he r e f o r e i t s good. J us t i f y t o m e w hy i t s a pub l i c be ne f i t t o c ha nge i t ? T ha t I t hi nk i s a good t e s t a nd pr oc e dur e O r t he ot he r w a y, you c a n j us t s e e i t a s a t r a p t o ge t hi m t o W e l l oka y w e c a n t de ny you r p r oj e c t be c a us e you know s uc h a nd s uc h [ l i ke ] i m pa c t on t he r oa d, ( o r w ha t e ve r ) W ha t ha ppe ns i s um I t hi nk t he one dow ns i de I w oul d s a y i n t he w hol e M a na ge d G r ow t h [ P l a n s ] e m pha s i s on c onc ur r e nc y o f f a c i l i t i e s a nd i nf r a s t r uc t ur e i s t ha t pl a nni ng ge t s t r a ppe d i nt o a t hought p r oc e s s of i m pa c t s e va l ua t i ons a nd m i t i ga t i ons onl y Y ou r e not l ooki ng a t w ha t s t he a pp r opr i a t e de s i gna t i on f or t he p r ope r t y i n t e r m s o f c om m uni t y i nt e r e s t Y ou r e l ooki ng a t C a n t he y s ol ve t he t r a f f i c pr ob l e m t he y ve c r e a t e d? I s t he r e e nough w a t e r f or t he m ? a nd a l l of t hi s B y t he t i m e you g e t i n t he D R I pr oc e s s ( t he D e ve l opm e nt a nd R e gi ona l I m pa c t ) i t s a l l a bout t ha t t he de ve l opm e nt of r e gi ona l i m pa c t S o i f you c a n ge t a you ha ve a p r ope r t y ow ne r go e s i n, doe s t he m a j o r e va l ua t i on o f t he i r pr oj e c t ; i de nt i f i e s a l l t he s ol ut i ons f o r a l l of t h e i r i m pa c t s t he n i t s pr e s um e d you c oul d a ppr ove i t e ve n i f t he us e s ha d not hi ng t o d o w i t h w ha t t he c om m uni t y w a s i nt e r e s t e d i n t o be gi n w i t h. W M : U m huh. B S : S o, I t hi nk t ha t s w ha t s be e n t he dow ns i de o f t he M a na ge d G r ow t h A c t I t h i nk t ha t i s t he c ur r e nt i s s ue t ha t pe opl e now ha ve i s t he y r e m or e i nt e r e s t e d i n w ha t a r e t he us e s of i n t he c om m uni t y; w ha t s good f or t he c om m un i t y? N ot j us t t he i m pa c t s a l one but you know I s i t good t o ha ve t hi s s hoppi ng c e nt e r he r e w he n w e ve got one ove r

PAGE 28

2 7 t he r e ? O r e ve n i f t he r oa ds a r e good a l l a r ound i t e ve n i f you put i t i n; w oul d you r e a l l y ne e d t w o s hoppi ng c e nt e r s w i t hi n a m i l e o f e a c h ot he r ? Y ou know ? T hos e ki nds of t h i ngs a r e t hi ngs t ha t I t hi nk pe opl e a r e m or e i nt e r e s t e d i n t a l ki ng a bout T he y r e m uc h obs e s s e d i n t h e de t a i l s of p l a nni ng i n t he pa s t l a s t t e n [ t o] t w e nt y ye a r s a nd t he de t a i l e d pr oc e s s a nd pr oc e dur e s of e va l ua t i ons a nd l ooki ng a t i m pa c t s L i ke I s a i d a de ve l ope r c om e s i n a nd he j us t goe s t hr ough hi s c he c kl i s t of t e n or t w e nt y t hi ngs a nd s a ys I s ol ve d t hi s p r obl e m I s ol ve d t h a t pr obl e m S o w ha t s t he pl a nne r s pr obl e m ? ( c huc kl e s ) Y ou know ? W M : A l s o t ha t ge t s ba c k t o p r ope r t y r i ght s w he r e J ohn D oe w ho ow ns t hi s p r ope r t y w hi c h i s c ur r e nt l y z one d f or i ndus t r i a l us e but c oul d gr e a t l y i nc r e a s e hi s pr of i t s by r e z oni ng i t f o r r e s i de nt i a l or c om m e r c i a l I t s l i ke hi s a dva nt a ge ve r s us t he c om m uni t y s be ne f i t B S : R i ght B ut t he i nt e r e s t i ng t hi ng i s i t s be e n a m i s nom e r a l i t t l e bi t a bout pr ope r t y r i ght s H e ha s t he a bi l i t y t o de ve l op hi s l a nd. Y ou ha v e n t t a ke n a nyt hi ng f r om hi m ; t he r e z oni ng i s not a pr ope r t y i s s ue pe r s e I f you ge t i nt o gol f c our s e s i t ge t s a l i t t l e bi t t r i c ky a bout i f you ve got a s t a nda r d us e i t j us t m e a ns he w a nt s t o m a ke m or e of hi s pr ope r t y. W M : T ha t w a s t he que s t i on I put t o hi m W he r e d o your p r ope r t y r i ght s [ e nd? ] T he i nf l ue nc e of you r p r ope r t y e xt e nds be yond i t s boun da r i e s W he r e doe s one pe r s on s pr ope r t y r i ght s s t a r t a nd a not he r s s t op? B S : Y e s I unde r s t a nd a nd t ha t s w he n you ge t t he c om m uni t y i nt e r e s t c om i ng i nt o p l a y. S om e t i m e s i t s not e ve n a dj a c e nt I t c oul d be w ha t s ha ppe ni ng on t ha t pr ope r t y m a y ha ve t he c om m uni t y i n t e r e s t a t t a c he d t o i t a nd t yp i c a l l y doe s B ut e s pe c i a l l y i f you ve got a dj a c e nt i m pa c t s B ut t he t hi ng a bout c om m uni t y p l a nni ng i s i t s not a bo ut t he i m pa c t s a l one I t s a bout W ha t doe s t he c om m uni t y w a nt t he r e ? W ha t i s good f or t he c om m uni t y? A nd i t m a y be s om e t hi ng t ha t t he p r ope r t y ow ne r m a y or m a y not ha ve w a nt e d. S o B ut you ki nd o f ha ve t o w or k t he t w o t oge t he r I d on t w a nt t o e m pha s i z e w ha t s good f or t he c om m uni t y ha s t o w or k e xa c t l y I t s got t o be a bl e nd be t w e e n t he t w o I t us ua l l y doe s w or k t ha t w e l l but t he t h i ng i s you j us t c a n t do t h e hi ghe s t a nd be s t us e Y ou ve got t o do w ha t s good f or t he c om m uni t y m a t c h t ha t a ga i ns t t he hi ghe s t a nd be s t us e W M : I m e a n, i t s a c om pl e x i s s ue W he r e doe s one pe r s on s r i ght s s t op a nd a not he r one s be gi n? I t s ha r d t o a ns w e r t ha t [ que s t i on] O ne of t he t hi ngs I r e a d i s t ha t [ a ] pr obl e m a r ound he r e i s a f f or da bl e hous i ng, f or pe opl e w ho w or k he r e

PAGE 29

2 8 B S : U m huh. W M : D o you t hi nk t ha t w i l l c ont i nue t o be a s i gni f i c a nt i s s ue ? B S : Y e s I t hi nk i t w i l l be A nd I t h i nk s om e c ha n ge i n t he t h i nki ng i s goi ng t o s t a r t t o oc c ur B ut i t ha s t o do w i t h t he w hol e e c onom i c s a nd i t ha s t o do w i t h pr ope r t y va l ue s goi ng hi ghe r a nd t he r e f o r e r a i s i ng t he pr i c e o f l a nd a nd de ve l opm e nt B ut t he r e a r e ot he r c ount e r ba l a nc i ng t hi ngs t o t ha t I de f i ni t e l y t hi nk t ha t a f f or da bl e h ous i ng w i l l be a n i s s ue i n t he f ut u r e B ut i t c oul d be t he i de a of w e ve ha d m obi l e hom e pa r ks t ha t s om e pe opl e w oul d l i ke t o e l i m i na t e A nd ye t i f you e l i m i na t e t he m t ha t i s a f f or da bl e f or c e not j us t f or t he r e t i r e d pe opl e but f or a nybody i n a ny a ge g r oup. A nd t he i s s ue w a s W e w a nt t o e l i m i na t e t he m be c a us e of hur r i c a ne t h r e a t s B ut t he n t he ot he r s i de o f t he c oi n w e ve now j us t r e c e nt l y r e l e a s e d a r e por t t ha t s how s how t he m ode r n ve r s i ons of m a nuf a c t ur e d hous i ng ( m obi l e uni t s ) [ c a n] a c t ua l l y w i t hs t a nd s t or m s be t t e r t ha n hous e s t ha t a r e bui l t on s i t e S o t ha t m a ke s [ t he m ] a ve r y a f f or da bl e opt i on t o l ook a t T he y r e us i ng di f f e r e nt m a t e r i a l s t ha t a r e c he a pe r Y ou know ? C onc r e t e s t he m os t e xpe ns i ve t hi ng. W ood e ve n t hough t he w hol e bot t om i s dr oppi ng out of t he m a r ke t on t ha t S o de pe ndi ng on w ha t m a t e r i a l s you us e a nd a r e you i n a n i nf l a t e d m a r ke t or a de pr e s s e d m a r ke t ? I t hi nk t he r e a r e a l ot of opt i ons B ut [ f o r us ] a f f o r da bl e hous i ng i s pr oba bl y m or e o f a c ha l l e nge t ha n f or s om e of t he ot he r s be c a us e w e don t ha ve t he hi nt e r l a nds t ha t a r e c he a pe r U nl e s s w e s or t o f ge t ou r a c t t oge t he r i n f i gur i ng out t o m a i nt a i n [ a f f or da bl e hous i ng] w i t hi n ( a nd i t s got t o do a l ot w i t h e xi s t i ng hous i ng s t oc k a nd, a ga i n, r e pl a c i ng ol d hom e s a nd do i ng t hi ngs l i ke t hi s S om e pe opl e ha ve c r i t i c i z e d t he i de a t ha t w e c a n a ppr ove a pr oj e c t a nd r e q ui r e a f f o r da bl e hous i ng a s pa r t of i t A nd pe opl e ha ve s a i d T ha t s not f a i r be c a us e one pe r c e nt a ge of hous i ng i s s ubs i di z i ng t he ot he r pe r c e nt a ge o f hous i ng i n t he de ve l opm e nt pr oj e c t S o I don t know I t s a c om pl i c a t e d W M : W e l l t ha t s w ha t m a ke s i t i nt e r e s t i ng. B S : I t doe s W M : I f i t w a s t oo s i m pl e a nyone c oul d do i t B S : T r ue W M : W ha t do you s e e f o r t he f ut ur e ? B S : C a n I a ns w e r t ha t que s t i on a f t e r I m a ke a pi t s t op?

PAGE 30

2 9 W M : S ur e L e t m e put t h i s on [ pa us e ] paus e i n r e c or di ng W M : O ka y, w e d a s ke d a bout w ha t do you s e e f or t he f ut ur e i n P i ne l l a s C ount y? B S : I s e e p r oba bl y m uc h m or e e m pha s i s on our e x i s t i ng popul a t i on a nd ou r e xi s t i ng us e s a nd how t o i m pr ove t he m I don t s e e us f oc us e d, l i ke s om e ot he r a r e a s a r e on f ut ur e gr ow t h a nd how t o de a l w i t h t ha t I t s goi ng t o be m or e on qua l i t y of l i f e t hi ngs ; pr ovi di ng t hi ngs t ha t t he e xi s t i ng popul a t i on r e a l l y w a nt s B ut a l s o f oc us e d on l i ke be t t e r j obs p r e s e r vi ng t he e nvi r onm e nt P ut t i ng f a c i l i t i e s i n t ha t t he pe opl e r e a l l y w a nt A l s o, pr ob a bl y, m uc h m o r e e m pha s i s on l i s t e ni ng t o t he popul a t i on a nd w or ki ng w i t h t he m T he r e a s on I m e nt i on t ha t i s i f you t he n go t t hi s s t r ong f oc us on your e xi s t i ng t ha t m e a ns your c ur r e nt c om m uni t y, w hi c h m e a ns you ve got t o be l i s t e ni ng m o r e t o t ha t W he r e i f you w e r e i n a n e m e r gi ng gr ow t h a r e a w i t h a l l va c a nt l a nd i t s a l i t t l e m or e W ho i s t he c ons t i t ue nc y f or t ha t ? Y ou l i s t e n t o i t i t s a l i t t l e l e s s t o be he a r d ( c huc kl e s ) s o t o s pe a k. I m e a n you ve t he e nvi r on m e nt a l gr oups a nd s o on but [ you pr oba b l y ha ve ] a hi ghe r l e ve l of a c c ount a bi l i t y i f y ou r e bui l t out l i ke w e a r e a nd t he n you ha ve de ve l opm e nt pr e s s ur e s i n a r e a s t ha t a r e a l r e a dy de ve l ope d. E s t a bl i s he d c om m uni t i e s a nd e s t a bl i s he d i nt e r e s t s a nd us e s a n d s o on l i ke t ha t S o I s e e m uc h m o r e f oc us on l i s t e n[ i ng] t o t he pu bl i c a nd w or ki ng w i t h t he m on t hi ngs a nd hope f ul l y m a ki ng t he c ount y a nd e ve n be t t e r p l a c e t ha n i t i s now W M : I m e a n you t a l k a bout t he c ount y i s not c o m pl e t e l y bui l t ou t but t he r e i s not a w hol e l ot of r oom t o e xpa nd i nt o, s o t he y w oul d ha ve t o s or t o f r e de f i ne r e de ve l op w ha t s he r e I s t ha t [ r i ght ] ? B S : I t h i nk w ha t i t i s t ha t i n F l o r i da a nd ot he r pa r t s of our c ount r y w e ve be c om e f oc us e d on de ve l opm e nt a s a bs ol ut e l y ne c e s s a r y. Y e t i f you l ook a t t he hi s t or y of de ve l opm e nt i n ot he r a r e a s t he r e a r e a l ot of a r e a s t ha t ha ve n t ha d a popul a t i on g r ow t h a nd ye t ha ve a vi b r a nt e c onom y. S o t he r e i s m o r e t o i t t ha n j us t bul l doz e r s a nd pu t t i ng bui l di ngs i n. T he r e a r e s om e ot he r t hi ngs t ha t c om e i n a nd m a ke y our e c onom y w or k. I t h i nk t ha t s w ha t you ve got ot he r i ndus t r i e s t ha t ha ve j obs pr oduc i ng t hi ngs t ha t a r e n t ne c e s s a r i l y c onc r e t e S o I t hi nk t he r e i s s om e of t h a t w e d pr oba bl y ge t a l ot m o r e i nt o A not he r t hi ng, t hough t ha t I w a nt t o m e nt i on t ha t i s i n t he P l a nni ng t o S t a y c onc l us i on i s t ha t e ve n t hough P i ne l l a s C ount y ha d a n e s t a bl i s he d popul a t i on f ut ur e i n t e r m s of not e xpa ndi ng. E ve n m or e s o i t s i m po r t a nt t ha t w e a r e a m a j or r e gi ona l p l a ye r i n t hi ngs A nd a pl a ye r w i t h t he e nt i r e r e gi on i n t e r m s of w ha t go e s on a nd w ha t ha ppe ns N ot onl y do w e t o go t hr ough e ve r ybody e l s e t o g e t t o P i ne l l a s C ount y w e j us t ha ve ve s t e d i nt e r e s t i n w ha t t he ove r a l l e c onom y i s not t o be l e f t be hi nd w i t h a l l o f t ha t S o w e w a nt t o be e nga ge d w i t h w ha t f u t ur e j obs t he r e a r e be c a us e pe opl e m i ght l i ve i n t he ot he r c ount i e s a nd t he n c om e he r e A nd t he r e a r e s t i l l t h os e pe opl e w ho l i ve he r e a nd w or k

PAGE 31

3 0 s om e w he r e e l s e S o i t s s or t of be i ng e nga ge d i n t h e r e gi ona l s i t ua t i on, pr oba bl y e ve n m or e [ now ] t ha n i n t he pa s t N ow w e ha ve a ve s t e d i nt e r e s t W he n you be c om e a m a t ur e e c onom y you s or t of h a ve a l ot of e xt e r na l i nf l ue nc e s t ha t a f f e c t you. T ha t s w ha t w e r e c ons c i ous of s o w e w a nt t o be m o r e e nga ge d r e gi ona l l y B e i ng a r e gi ona l l e a de r e nt a i l s e ve r yt hi ng f r om r a i l a nd t r a ns por t a t i on a nd ot he r s ubj e c t s l i ke e nvi r onm e nt a l p r ot e c t i on. W M : U m huh. T he r e s be e n a l ot o f t a l k a bout de v e l opi ng m a s s t r a ns i t a t l e a s t ove r i n H i l l s bor ough C ount y a nd l i ke you s a i d, P i ne l l a s w oul d c e r t a i nl y be i nf l ue nc e d [ by t ha t ] B S : O h ye a h. I n f a c t one of t he m os t obvi ous c o r r i dor s t o de a l w i t h i s w e ha ve t he C S X r a i l l i ne I t goe s f r o m H i l l s bor ough C ount y a nd l oo ps t hr ough P i ne l l a s I t s s or t of c i r c ui t ous w he n i t e nt e r s t he c ount y, but by t he t i m e i t hi t s dow nt ow n C l e a r w a t e r f r om C l e a r w a t e r dow n t o S t [ P e t e r s bu r g] i t s a di a gona l s t r a i ght l i ne I t s t he qui c ke s t w a y t o ge t f r om C l e a r w a t e r t o S t P e t e a s t he c r ow f l i e s O ne of t he c or r i do r s t ha t m a ke s t he m os t s e ns e r a i l w i s e i n t he r e gi on, i s t he C l e a r w a t e r t o S t P e t e l i ne T he r e f or e w he n t he que s t i on c a m e u p w e ve pr e t t y m uc h ha ve r e f oc us e d our i nt e r e s t t o a c t ua l l y l ook a t t ha t c or r i do r a nd t a l ki ng t o C S X a bout w ha t t o do w i t h i t A l s o w e w e r e t a l ki ng a bout doi ng i t i n t he c ont e xt of a r e gi ona l gr oup a r e gi ona l a ut hor i t y, know i ng t ha t a s you l ook a t r a i l i t s s om e t hi ng t ha t ne e ds t o be l ooke d a t on a r e gi ona l ba s i s B ut i f i t doe s n t ha ppe n r e gi ona l l y a t l e a s t w e d w a nt t o do i t ou r s e l ve s B ut t hi nk w e d w a nt t o do i t a ga i n t ha t w hol e t h i n g a bout w a nt i ng t o be pa r t of t he r e gi on, a r e gi ona l l e a de r i s t h a t w e r e w i l l i ng t o d o w ha t e ve r i t i s t ha t w or ks w i t h e ve r ybody e l s e B ut i t s ur e m a ke s s om e s e ns e i n ou r f ut ur e t o be f i ndi ng s om e ot he r w a y t o m ove be s i de s t he a ut om obi l e W M : O h a bs ol ut e l y. I c oul d s t a r t t a l ki ng a bout [ t h e i l l s of ] t he c a r now a nd not s t op. S o I don t t o do t ha t I ve be e n t h r ow i ng que s t i ons a t you f or t he pa s t ho ur a nd a ha l f i s t he r e a nyt h i ng you w a nt t o c om m e nt on t ha t I ha ve n t a s ke d a bout ? I know t he r e i s a l ot o f t e r r i t or y t o c ove r but um B S : N o, I w oul d r e a l l y s a y you ve c ove r e d i t pr e t t y w e l l P r oba bl y t he onl y f i l l i n t he ga ps c om m e nt I w oul d m a ke i s t ha t t he r e f or e i n t e r m s of f ut u r e de ve l opm e nt w ha t w e s e e i s i n t he i ndus t r i a l be l t a r e a i n t he m i ddl e of t h e c ount y. A l s o, i n ou r dow nt ow n a r e a s w he r e w e r e t r yi ng t o f o c us ne w de ve l opm e nt a nd t he r e s t T he a dva nt a ge t o t ha t i s be i ng a bl e t o do i t on l i va bl e c om m uni t y ba s i s B e c a us e your dow nt ow ns a r e w he r e you ha ve t he non a ut om obi l e f oc us B ut i f you r e goi ng t o i n c r e a s e [ popul a t i on] de ns i t i e s t he r e you ne e d t o m a ke s u r e you ve go t pe de s t r i a n m ove m e nt t r a i l c onne c t i ons t r a ns i t a nd

PAGE 32

3 1 t hi ngs l i ke t ha t T he r e f or e I t hi nk ou r f oc us of t he f ut ur e i s goi ng t o be t ha t T he n how t o c om e up w i t h s om e a l t e r na t i ve w a ys t o m ove a r ou nd be s i de s t he a ut om obi l e S o I t hi nk you ve pr e t t y w e l l c ove r e d t he ga m ut W M : O ka y. A ga i n t ha nk you f o r t a ki ng t he t i m e t o t a l k w i t h m e A nd I a l w a ys r e m i nd pe opl e t ha t t he i n f or m a t i on you ve s ha r e d w i t h w i l l be de pos i t e d i n t he S pe c i a l C ol l e c t i ons of t he U ni ve r s i t y [ of S out h F l or i da s ] L i br a r y I a l s o ha ve a r e l e a s e f or m t ha t I ha ve t o a s k you t o s i gn, s o t ha t pe opl e c a n ha ve a c c e s s t o t hi s i nt e r vi e w B S : T ha t s f i ne W M : O ka y. A nd I ve be e n phot og r a phi ng e ve r yon e I ve i n t e r vi e w D o you m i nd i f I t a ke your pi c t ur e ? B S : N o pr obl e m S u r e W M : O ka y G r e a t L e t m e s t op t hi s t hi ng. E n d of i n t e r v i e w