USF Libraries
USF Digital Collections

Anthony Granell


Material Information

Anthony Granell
Series Title:
Spanish Civil War oral history project
Physical Description:
1 sound file (84 min.) : digital, MPEG4 file + ;
Granell, Anthony
Varela-Lago, Ana M
University of South Florida Libraries -- Florida Studies Center. -- Oral History Program
University of South Florida -- Tampa Library
University of South Florida Tampa Library
Place of Publication:
Tampa, Fla
Publication Date:


Subjects / Keywords:
Ybor City (Tampa, Fla.)   ( lcsh )
History -- Spain -- Civil War, 1936-1939   ( lcsh )
Oral history   ( local )
Online audio   ( local )
Oral history.   ( local )
Online audio.   ( local )


Anthony Granell describes how the Spanish Civil War affected his family with two uncles in Spain who fought for opposing sides.
Interview conducted April 12, 1997.
System Details:
Mode of access: World Wide Web.
System Details:
Streaming audio.
Statement of Responsibility:
interviewed by Ana Varela-Lago.
General Note:
Supplemental material available in the USF Tampa Library Special Collections area.

Record Information

Source Institution:
University of South Florida Library
Holding Location:
University of South Florida
Rights Management:
All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
aleph - 029487133
oclc - 316065276
usfldc doi - S64-00008
usfldc handle - s64.8
System ID:

This item is only available as the following downloads:

Full Text
xml version 1.0 encoding UTF-8 standalone no
record xmlns http:www.loc.govMARC21slim xmlns:xsi http:www.w3.org2001XMLSchema-instance xsi:schemaLocation http:www.loc.govstandardsmarcxmlschemaMARC21slim.xsd
leader njm 2200433Ia 4500
controlfield tag 001 029487133
005 20140206163234.0
006 m u
m d
007 sz zunnnnnzned
cr nna||||||||
008 090317s1997 fluuunn d n eng d
datafield ind1 8 ind2 024
subfield code a S64-00008
0 033
b 3934
1 100
Granell, Anthony.
Anthony Granell
h [electronic resource] /
interviewed by Ana Varela-Lago.
Tampa, Fla. :
University of South Florida Tampa Library,
1 sound file (84 min.) :
digital, MPEG4 file +
e 1 transcript (digital, PDF file)
Spanish Civil War oral history project
Supplemental material available in the USF Tampa Library Special Collections area.
Anthony Granell describes how the Spanish Civil War affected his family with two uncles in Spain who fought for opposing sides.
Mode of access: World Wide Web.
Streaming audio.
Interview conducted April 12, 1997.
Granell, Anthony.
Ybor City (Tampa, Fla.)
x History
y Civil War, 1936-1939.
7 655
Oral history.
2 local
Online audio.
Varela-Lago, Ana M.
University of South Florida Libraries.
Florida Studies Center.
Oral History Program.
University of South Florida.
Tampa Library.
4 856


COPYRIGHT NOTICE This Oral History is copyrighted by the University of South Florida Libraries Oral History Program on behalf of the Board of Trustees of the University of South Florida. Copyright, 2009, University of South Florida. All rights, reserved This oral history may be used for research, instruction, and private study under the provisions of the Fair Use. Fair Use is a provision of the United States Copyright Law (United States Code, Title 17, section 107), which allows limited use of copyrig hted materials under certain conditions. Fair Use limits the amount of material that may be used. For all other permissions and requests, contact the UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA LIBRARIES ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM at the University of South Florida, 4202 E. Fo wler Avenue, LIB 122, Tampa, FL 33620.


1 Spanish Civil War Oral History Project Oral History Program Florida Studies Center University of South Florida, Tampa Library Digital Object Identifier: S64 00008 Interviewee: Anthony Granell (AG) Interviewer: Ana M. Varela Lago (AV) Interview date: April 12, 1997 Interview location: Centro Asturiano de Tampa Transcribed by: Unknown Transcription date: Unknown Interview changes by: Mary Beth Isaacson Interview changes date: November 19, 2008 Additional changes: Arlen Bensen Additional changes date: December 15, 2008 Final Edit by: Maria Kreiser Final Edit date: January 20, 2009 A na M. V arela Lago : This is an interview with Mr. Anthony Granell Tony, I would like to start by talking a little bit about your family. Tell me, how did your family first come to Tampa and what did they do here? A nthony G ranell : The first three persons that left Spain to come to the United States was my oldest uncle Vicente, Jose Garcia Gra nell, and their father, Antonio Garcia. AV: So they left Spain together? AG: They left Spain together. They, at that time, everybody went to Cuba, Havana, Cuba. That's the way I understand it. Thinking that they had a relative in Cuba that they would be situated, and this and that. It did not work out. They were in Havana for a little while, and then they decided to come to Tampa, because of the cigar industry. AV: Where were they from in Spain? AG: They were from Pravia, Asturias. AV: And how old were they when they left? I mean how old was Vicente, and Jose AG: Okay, my uncle Vicente is the oldest one. Vicente must have been I want to say about 15, 16 at the oldest. And Pepe followed him, so it's a year and a half difference, maybe ten month difference, who knows what the AV: But they were young. AG: They were, oh yes, they were in their teens.


2 AV: I see. And why did they leave Spain, do you know? AG: I'm glad you asked! The reason for leaving Spain. Fortunately, my grandfather could afford he was in a condition that he was al l right financially he did not want his two oldest s ons to serve the country; which at that time, for some reason, they were all sent to Africa. Morocco. AV: Morocco. AG: So he said "No", he would like for them to go to America. That's the reason for that. AV: I see. AG: Now, you haven't asked anything about my father. AV: Yes. I'm interested in your father, yes. Tell me about him. AG: My father came later on. He was still in school. AV: What was his name? AG: Gonzalo. AV: Gonzalo. He was the youngest son? AG: No. AV: Oh, o kay. AG: No, there was still one younger than him. AV: Okay. AG: The youngest boy was Oscar. AV: Oscar. Okay. So your father remained in Spain with your grandmother ? AG: Si AV: while your grandfather and your two uncles came to Cuba? AG: That's correct. Upon my father finishing his whatever high school, I don't know what it was then but they were all, three of them, which get pretty high education. And upon my father, Gonzalo, getting to the age where, again going to the service, he is sent


3 to the United States in the s ame route: Cuba and to the and my grandfather, upon his third son coming out here and everything is fine, settled, he returned back to Spain. AV: To Spain. And settled there and he remained there AG: And he remained there. He died there. AV: Oh I see. AG: Now there was another son, continue with this? AG: Sure. AG: Now he, this last son was the youngest of them all. He didn't want to come to the United States. He said no. So he went to Moro cco, Spain, and he served under Franco. AV: I see. You mean during the war? In the '30s? AG: Prior. AV: Oh, prior to the war. AG: Prior. He served his service under Franco AV: I see. Like the military AG: the militia. Yes. Under Franco in Morocco. AV: In Morocco, I see. AG: Okay. AV: I see. AG: He was the only son that didn't come to the United States. AV: Okay. Now, what did your family do in Pravia? Were they farmers? I mean, did they work the land? Was that ? AG: No. No. AV: No? AG: No, what they had my grandfather in Pravia had like a clothing store, or a general store. That's how they survived. I understand it was a fairly large store. And they were the way I understand it, they were


4 AV: Well off? AG: They weren't farmers. They were in the c ity. AV: I see. AG: Yes. AV: Now, going back to your father coming with your grandfather and your uncle to Cuba AG: No. AV: No? Your uncle, I'm sorry. Right, your father remained there, Gonzalo. AG: Right. Gonzalo, yes. AV: Right, your two uncles and your grandfather came to Cuba and then decided to come to Tampa. AG: That's correct. AV: Okay. Where did they go in Tampa? Where did they settle? AG: Oh, in Ybor City. I'm sorry West Tampa. AV: West Tampa? AG: West Tampa. AV: Okay. And what did they do? AG: Cigar. AV: They worked in the cigar factories? AG: In the cigar industry. Yes, yes. AV: What year was that? What, you know, period, you think? The beginning of the century, or later than that ? AG: No, it was very early. Vicente was born in 1890. So, let's say he came down here when he was 16 years old, so that, what 1901? 1902? AV: I see. Okay. So the three of them worked as cigar workers?


5 AG: They started into the cigar they learned the trade. Pepe AV: Pep e is your uncle Jose? We' ll call him Pepe from now on. AG: Jose. Pepe. Jose. His interest wasn't in the c igar industry, his interest was now that I see what he did, write, in writing. For some reason, he loved to write. So A t a early age I never, can't t ell you what year he moved to Chicago. Now, what he did in Chicago, Ana, I have no idea. He was there a few years, and then he returned to Tampa. He wasn't in Tampa very long maybe four or five years into the cigar industry, and then when the [Spanish] Civ il War broke out, he left, went to New York. Got o n the Lincoln Brigade there and went back to his home country. AV: Okay. Yes. We' ll talk about that in more detail. AG: Okay. AV: I'm going to keep asking you about the whole family. AG: Stop me, stop me whenever AV: No, that's okay. AG: I'll try to remember everything I can. AV: That's good, I'll make a note of that. AG: Okay. AV: So, the three of them come to Tampa West Tampa and they start working in the cigar factories. AG: Yes. AV: Now, when does your father come to Tampa? Gonzalo. AG: Okay. AV: More or less. AG: More or less. AV: Before World War I, for instance ? AG: I have to use some dates. He was born in 1895. So if he was 16 17 years, what is that, 1904? more or less.


6 AV: 1 912? AG: Okay, 1912. Al l right. AV: So, he came alone? AG: He came alone. AV: And came directly to Tampa? I mean, stopped in Cuba but he knew he was coming to Tampa. AG: That is correct. Destination was Tampa AV: Right. Okay. AG: because his two brothers and his father were here. AV: So he didn't really spend time in Cuba, or anything. AG: No, not like the other. Not like my two uncles and my grandfather. No. AV: And he also went to West Tampa and the cigar factories? All of them were working there? AG: That's true. AV: Good. So, let's stop here for a minute and go to your mother's side. AG: Okay. AV: Tell me about that too. Where in Spain were they ? AG: My mother was no. AV: She wasn't from Spain? AG: No. AV: Oh, okay. AG: May I co ntinue? AV: Sure, yes. Tell me everything. AG: My mother's parents are from Sicily.


7 AV: Oh, I see. AG: I'm ashamed, but I can't remember exactly where in Sicily I think it's Alessandria della Rocca. I'm pret ty sure, because a lot of them came from there. Now, they met here in the United States. They got married. And all their children were born here. Which means that my mother was born in Tampa. AV: I see. What is her name? Or what was her name? AG: Maria. AV: Maria. And the last name? The maiden name ? AG: Rotolo. AV: Rotolo. AG: R o t o l o. Rotolo. AV: Rotolo. Okay. What did she do? Did she work in a cigar factory, or they had other business? AG: Yes. Well. Now, o n my grandfather my maternal grandfather education wasn't the prime up there. At a very young age, she went into the cigar industry. She was in cigar. Married very young. She was, let me see, what is my mother saying. She married at 19 and I was born before she was 21. Very young. They got marri ed, they married very young. And I came very early. AV: You are the oldest son? AG: I am the oldest. There's only two of us. AV: How did your parents meet? Do you know? Do you know how your parents met? AG: That's a good question, because I was talking to my cousin about that. How did my parents meet and how did his parents meet. There's only one answer to that: in the cigar, in the cigar factories. AV: They worked in the sa m e factory? AG: They probably did in the s ame cigar factory, they met. And st uff like that. So, that's the only way. There was no other way then. They were, you know. Activity was very limited and, so it had to be that way. AV: Was it common for Spaniards to marry out of the Spanish community?


8 AG: Ah! AV: How easy was that? AG : I recall that it wasn't very easy. They made it very hard for my mother. But, anyway they AV: Your mother's family ? AG: Yes. AV: didn't approve of her marrying a Spaniard? AG: No, they. At first. Yes. Marry a Spaniard. Why marry a Spaniard when they have all the Italians over here? But love must have been blind. But they got married. And I remember hearing many times what a blessing that was, that she married my father. May I brag about my father? AV: Sure, feel free to. AG: Because, like I previously said, education now, they came from a poor country, and farmers and stuff so education was out. Being that my daddy could get a letter and translate it into English, Spanish, or Italian, they said M y God, what is this? What is this man? So that's where he, and my grandparents were in the grocery business. They didn't make a good success of it, but that's what they would my grandparents didn't go into the cigar industry. Both kids their children did, but they didn't. So, because of my father's ability to communicate he could read English but he could not communicate. Could not speak the English don't know why. But he could read and write Italian, and all three languages. AV: I see. So they liked him. AG: Yes, oh yes. He was a big asse t to them later o n in life. AV: I see. Okay, so now the grandfather and the three sons are here. And then eventually your grandfather decided to go back to Spain and the three sons remained? AG: Very very short time upon my father coming down here, very short time, he returned back to Spain, to be with his wife and his daughter, and one son. AV: I see. So the three brothers stayed here in Tampa. Did they live together, or did, they got married and d o you know? AG: I guess. In West Tampa there was a boarding house, or a house, where you worked in the factory and you lived there. The three lived together for a while, yes. The oldest


9 one got married. Vicente, and the other two brothers remained living in this boarding house, whatever it was. AV: What was the factory they worked at? AG: I've no idea. AV: You don't know? Okay. I thought, maybe it was AG: I wish I could, at that time, but I can't remember. I don't know. But, it definitely was in the c igar industry. AV: Okay, tell me your memories some of your memories about your childhood? Growing up here in Tampa, what do you remember most? Good memories, bad memories? AG: Well, you wa n t me to start the day I was born? AV: Yes, what comes to mind w hen you think of your childhood? What are the things that ? AG: My childhood was a very, very good childhood. My mother and my father and there's only two of us I'm the oldest one and my sister, Jenny. Her real name is Juanita. AV: Juanita. AG: But Jenny; she goes under Jenny. It was a very, very happy childhood AV: Where were you born? AG: Tampa. AV: What year? AG: Oh. 1922. AV: Nineteen twenty two [1922] AG: March the 22nd. AV: Okay. Where did you go to school? AG: To school? I went to you mean from day one all the way to AV: Yes, when you were a kid. The first school.


10 AG: Okay. I started, the elementary school was Orange Grove. Then I went to George Washington Junior High. Then I went to Hillsborough High School. Then, much later i n life, I graduated from the University of Tampa. Much later. Do you want to know why? AV: Yes, if you want to tell me, sure. AG: Okay. Later because in '42 I volunteered in the Navy. I served almost four years. Then when I came out we had I was still s ingle we had the G.I. Bill of Right. And I took advantage of it because my father, my father always taught me that education was prime. So I took advantage and with the G.I. Bill, I went to Tampa U. And my first year in Tampa U. I got married. And my secon d year at Tampa U. my first child was born. And I graduated from Tampa U. in '49. AV: What degree did you get? What did you study? AG: Business administration minor in accounting. AV: I see. Okay. Going back to your childhood, what do you remember of the Depression? Because you grew up in the '30s. What are the memories? AG: I remember I guess I was fortunate, because o f my father and my grandfather o n my mother's side, gardens in the back, vegetables and stuff like that. And my father's brother having a cow. I can ne v er I've heard a lot of people say that they went to bed hungry. I can't say that. I, really and truly, again that's why I say I was very fortunate. Somehow, my parents and my grandparents managed for us to I mean it wasn't no steaks or nothing like that, but we didn't go hungry. I remember that. I r emember watching our pennies. Being very careful. Wherever we can make a dime, we used to shi ne shoes, whatever it is, sel l magazines or paper like that. I remember that. I remember both of my parents struggled very hard in the cigar industry. Things weren't going very good. Maybe both of them if they had a good week, they would probably bring in both of them twelve dollar s. Maybe. But my childhood, again, I will stress it, it was a very happy one. Fortunately I didn't go hungry. I know a lot of them did, but fortunately we didn't go that way. AV: I see. How about the clubs? Did your parents belong to the clubs? AG: Whic h clubs? AV: The social clubs here. The Latin clubs? AG: Did I go ? AV: Were they involved in the clubs? Were they members of the clubs? AG: My father was a very old member of el Centro Asturiano Yes. And naturally where


11 my father went, my mother went. But then my father they started a new health like in, today they call it HMOs, La Fraternidad. And my father was very active in La Fraternidad. So was my uncle Vicente. My father never did enjoy having to work in the cigar industry. AV: Why not? AG: He just didn't like it. My uncle liked it because he was at an entirely different thing in there. I have a feeling my father never told me it was a little bit degrading to work in the cigar factory w hen he was an educated man. AV: I see. AG: A young man at the time. I'm bragging? yes, yes, okay. Fine. I'm proud, I'm proud of my family. So, something came up at La Fraternidad that they needed somebody to run the thing. Mi padre dice "I can do it." You don't know this, you don't know He said, "How do you know? How do you know that I don't know?" So they tried him out, and lo and behold he became the secr etary and treasurer of La Fratern idad. And he was there until he died. AV: Now, this health, was this like a health plan and insurance kind of thing? AG: Yes. AV: What was the difference between belonging to La Fraternidad and belonging to any of the clubs in terms of health services? AG: There was no difference. No diffe rence because, I tell you what, there was the different. El Centro Asturiano and Centro Espa – ol were the only clubs that had a hospital. Now La Fraternidad and the Cuban Club and La Uni — n Italiana, they didn't have that. But they worked close with the exis ting hospital. La Fraternidad was very close to Centro Asturiano. So the patients, the hospital was Centro Asturiano. Doctors were probably Centro Asturiano or they had the s ame doctors. That was the only difference. It's just the manner of running the business, where you worked, who you had to see, was the same thing. AV: Was the same thing. AG: Ten’ an la misma we call it dietas have you heard that? AV: Yes. AG: If you weren't able to work, you got so much per day. You were policed. If you were ho me sick, somebody would check up o n you AV: Yes, make sure that you were


12 AG: That's correct. So, that' s the only difference. La Fratern idad wasn't as big as Centro Asturiano, no. But the benefits and everything was the same. I don't know what the cost was, what the different why La Frate rn idad was br ought up, I have no idea. AV: Yes. That's interesting. AG: Just somebody changed everything in there. AV: Now your mother, was she a member of the Italian Club? Was she involved with the Italian Club, or ? AG: No, no no no. AV: she joined the Centro Asturiano also? AG: She was mor e involved in the Centro Asturia no, and more, La Fraternidad. Wherever my father went, my mother So, yes. I was more; I have a lot of Italian friends and stuff like that. But again, in the young thing, I had more friends, Spaniards, than anything else. Culture wise and stuff like that, I had both of them. Italian and but more Spaniard. AV: Did you speak Italian at home? AG: Oh yes. AV: Did your mother speak Spanish? Did they use English? I mean how did you manage? AG: Yes, yes. Yes yes. My mother spoke English: My mo ther was not an educated woman beautiful person, but she couldn't read or write. My father had to do all of that for her. Now. Let me say this, Ana. I would be talking to my mother in Italian, carrying o n the same conversation I di dn't realize it until late I tu rn around to my father, I mean, I start talking to him in Spanish. I don't know why. But tha t' s the way it was. So, was both language spoke at home? Yes. AV: So you grew up really learning both of them? AG: Yes yes. Because my grandparents o n my mother's side lived next door to us. When my mother and my father were working in the cigar industr y, my grandmother used to take c are all the whole flock. I mean there were a lot. Cousins and stuff like that. So yes, I learn ed both languages. AV: And when did you learn English then, when you went to school, or you had picked up some in the neighborho od?


13 AG: No, no. I started school with not a word of English, and come crying home every day, I didn't want to go back to school. My father says, "Y ou will go back to school. I learned English at school. AV: I see. AG: Yes. There was no English spoken i n the neighborhood or nothing like that. No. It was hard for us. But we bit the bullet and I comment [comic?], that came, the other thing, yes. AV: Okay. What do you remember happening in Tampa in the 1930s? What are some of the things in terms of events, social events, political events, what AG: Social? AV: sticks in your mind? Just pick one or two like big events that you think that kind of made an impression an you. AG: The thing, a while ago when you said the '30 s, was the way that, we had a lot of crime. We had some, and you can't what they would call the Mafia. My family, I'm proud to say, was not involved in the Mafia. But I remember th a t, I remember a few killings, and that. And I remember, they used to have these picnics. And I remember tha t people used to go there, they didn't have nothing but there was a lot of fun. A lot of music, Spanish music, Italian music whatever else, but it was a lot of fun. They had no radios they had radios, but who had, who could afford a radio? Who could affo rd a telephone? And I rem ember, out of nothing, a lot of fun. And I do remember there was a lot of visiting done. From my house to your house, friends. A lot of that going there. And I can remember going down the street with my father. My father before he became secretario of La Fraternidad, he was the collector. Well, the weekly, and I remember walking down the sidewalks with him and there was a particular family please don't ask me the family name, because I can't remember but you don't know what I looked forward to. It was the summer, to go to thi s house, in the porch. Entren! And get a lemonade drink. Oh, that was the thing! I remember that very distinctly. I also remember going down the sidewalk; if I wasn't paying attention, people were always sitting i n the porch. And if I, Buenas, que tal ? or something like that. One time I overlooked that; we kep t o n going. Say, S e llega el Asturiano y me dice " D—nde aprendiste eso?" I said Q u Ž qu Ž P apa? " No saludaste a la gente ." Bueno, se me olvid — ." "Go back and apologize." "Papa," I remember that. What I'm trying to say is, discipline was there. There was a lot of crime, a lot of different things going on. But, as a rule, we obeyed the father and the mother. Discipline was there. I remember that. What else? AV: Yes, other big events for the community, or, you know, in the cigar industry? Anything at all? Some political events, some elections, or some ?


14 AG: Some elections? AV: Yes. AG: Well, for some reason we weren't too involved. Why? I don't know now, Ana. But my family wasn't too involved in politics or anything like that. Let me say this. I will say this because it is so. My father might not have been involved in too many things, but he w as aware of a lot of things. So we didn't have we had the time, but we didn't have the money to get in too many things. No, my family was never involved in politics. I can't recall there, nothing like that. But I'm sure that my family, I have to say when my father he was very aware. And so was Vicente, the oldest one. They were very aware of what was going on. B ut involvement? No. Now, later o n in '36, now we are talking about a different they did, they were involved in the AV: With the war. AG: conflict of Spain, yes. AV: Okay. Yes, let's talk about that. How did your family become involved in this conflict, I mean what do you remember of their involvement there? AG: What I can remember is, my family was involved; they were in the Loyalists. AV: The Loyalists; supporters? AG: They weren't wi th Franco. AV: The Loyalists were the Republican supporters. AG: The Republican. They were very for that. That I remember. AV: How did you first learn about the war in Spain? If you remember. Do you remember how you first became aware? AG: I became aware of the Civil War in Spain I have to be very frank with you when I heard that Pepe was leaving. AV: Pepe, your uncle Jose? AG: Jose. AV: Your father told you "Pepe is leaving"? AG: Pepe. Yes. Jose is Pepe.


15 AV: Right, right. AG: So I said, "Pap a, qu Ž se va pa Chicago?" No, se va pa Espa – a "What's he gonna do in Spain?" "There's a conflict in Spain. Civil War in Spain." That's when I lea rn ed abou t that. Then later on, they learn ed that the youngest brother was also involved, but with Franco. Why with Franco? Because he served under Franco. So naturally he went with his commander. Pepe got my eyes opened when I heard that he left the United States to go to Spain and fight in the C ivil War. Were we active? Y es. My parents were, yes. AV: Okay. Let's talk about Pepe now. AG: Okay. AV: Where was he when he was in Tampa at the time that he decided to go to Spain? AG: Yes. AV: Were you close to him? I mean, what can you tell me about Pepe, his personality, his life? AG: I'll tell you one thing about Pepe. I was a kid, okay? I remember Pepe working in a cigar factory he was a bachelor. Never married. He lived, at that time he lived with his oldest brother, Vicente, and he was working in the cigar factory. This I remember. Fridays, when he got paid, I made sure that I was at my uncle's Vicente's house, because Pepe would come around and give all the Granells nephews a quarter. So that, I remember Pepe. AV: Very generous. AG: Very generous, very generous. I rem ember Pepe then. And I also remember Pepe sitting down, at a table, he had a table of his own. Piles and piles of paper; escribiendo una novela. AV: Oh, he was writing a novel? AG: He never finished it I remember that And I remember all three brothers sitting down, discussing different things, and Pepe would say, I'm gonna use my fifth intelligence with this conversation!" AV: That's funny. AG: And they would get, oh they would get mad. I remember Pepe that way. B eing generous. Being a bachelor. Writing a lot of stuff I never knew what the subject was or what it was I was too young for that. He n ever did finish the novel. And I rem ember, all of a sudden, I don't know how he got it, but he wanted to go back to Spain


16 AV: To Spain. Now, was he involved in politics here in any way? I mean with the unions maybe? Was he active in any way that you can remember? AG: No. No, no no. Pepe was a very to me he was a very centered man. I never remember him going out with a woman. He wasn't gay, don't get me wrong, he wasn't gay. I know that. But he was a, un espa – ol No, he was never involved in anything like that now, in Chicago I don't know. AV: Because he lived in Chicago for a few years? AG: Oh, he lived in Chicago for a long time. AV: I see. AG: What he did in Chicago, I'm sorry Ana, I cannot answer you. He did something, but I really don't know. He wasn't in the cigar industry, I know that. But what he did I don't know. AV: Okay. AG: So, I have no other than that. AV: So, your father tell s you that Pepe is leaving, and he leaves right away ? I mean, when was that, in '37 he was leaving. I think we have the article. AG: Wel l AV: He left with, '37, with a whole bunch of people from Tampa? AG: He left. Yes, they AV: Do you remember him actually leaving? I mean the day he left? AG: No, no no no. And, Ana, I wanna say this. For some reason, I'm trying to figure this out or something like that, we didn't hear of the Lincoln Brigade until after they got there. For some reason, I think it was held pretty secretive, for some reason or other. And then I learned, when he was in Spain, that the first time I remember the Lincoln Br igade of hearing that word, that my uncle was in the Lincoln Brigade. He had gone to New York. Joined whatever was there, and went overseas. Now what I u nderstand that I thought that they had gone into the Mediterranean and th en to Barcelona. But they said N o, no no no no. This is a hearsay, okay? They went into France, in the Northern part of France, into Spain. Little bit, trickle, little bit at a t ime. Do you have any documents o n that? AV: Yes.


17 AG: Have you heard that that's the way it was? AV: Ye s. AG: Okay. So, I' m pretty straight o n the tracking there. I think what you were trying to ask me, was he involved in any communist party, or something like that AV: Yes, well yes. AG: No. Not that I know AV: Anything that would give a hint that well, now that this thing is happening in Spain AG: No, no. Not to that, communist or anarchist. I never heard that being said in my family. Now, I remember being said a lot of the high elite, the manufacturers, the cigar, abusive and stuff like that, which I'm gonna tell you something in a little while But other than, being in the communist or any party like that, no no no no. They were very proud to be from Spain, but they were very proud to be from the Republic. So, nothing like that, nothing like that. Now, going back to the abuse of manufacturer s. Out at a certain cigar factory I' ll name it Arango y Arango, somewhere down the line, very far down the line, they were related to my father. So they were working my uncle Vicente, my father, my mother, an d Vicente had a daughter, Maria. She was, I thin k she was an apprentice then. Those four people, those four persons, all of a sudden got fired. AV: Oh really? AG: And they found out it was because they were AV: Related ? AG: from a different party. AV: Oh, I see. Had they done anything? I mean AG: What they've done is because they had a brother that left here and went to Spain to fight. AV: So that was right after your uncle decided to AG: My uncle was already in Spain. AV: Right, so that was the cause? That your uncle had AG: Well, you p ut two and two together, and they came to that conclusion. And again, my uncle and my father would not make any declaration or anything like that, but I'm


18 pretty, pretty sure, that's what happened. AV: I see. Was t hat common, do you thi nk? A lot of people got fired when they ? AG: I think so. I don't recall any other c ases, but I've heard a lot of th at going on, yes. And if it was that, they would make it very miserable. But they didn't make it miserable for my family. They just fired them! AV: Yes. AG: They just AV: So what did they do? They just tried to find a job in other, or, did they protest in any way, I mean, was there any way of ? AG: Oh, no no no no. They wouldn't know. You couldn't AV: Tell me, yes. AG: No, you couldn't. There was n o such thing as going to get your lawyer and your, or discriminating at all. AV: But how about other people within the cigar factory, would they, they could kind of organize, or ? AG: They couldn't do anything. They couldn't do anything because the union was there the cigar industry was there, the union was there. It did a lot of good but unfortunately, they weren't very strong. The y weren't very strong. And, if I recall, the union at one time was very strong but too many strikes, this and tha t, and a couple of big factories just pulled out. They left Tampa. So, when that happens Ana, you're in timidated. You're "Hey, wait a m inute, let's be very careful; it's only four people involv ed, it's only six people involved over there So, no, nothing could be done. Nothing was done. So, what happened, they went somewhere else to work. How l ong ? I don't know. AV: Yes. So, tell me a little bit more about this conflict between the people who supported the Republic and the people who didn't? AG: You kno w, Ana. There was a lot of, I want to use this word, animosity. But I cannot recall, one case, only one c ase I can recall, and you have it documented. But other than that, I don't remember people fighting or using abusive languages or something like that. I'm sure there was, but I was not exposed to them. Okay? Now, there was another conflict, with two men, two neighbors got in a real hot argument and they both well, one killed another, and then committed suicide You have that documented. But that's all I can remember.


19 AV: Do you remember when that actually happened? AG: Oh yes. AV: Yes? AG: This killing and suicide? AV: Yes. AG: Oh yes. AV: And what do you remember of that ? AG: I remember that they were neighbors. They were always in conflict, always finding some difference, always butting heads together. And, all of a sudden, I say, one of them must have just flipped. And he's the one that killed. And he turn ed around and committed suicide. That's for a fact. I remember that. AV: Yes. Do you remember how people here reacted to that, to the news of that happening? AG: People, if I recall, people were saddened. Because, not only did this man did this, but then he realized what he did and he did his own se l f. But he left, two families were left without a father or a husband. And, t here was no overjoy of, "E h mat— a Ž ste No. If anything, I recall, there was a lot of sorrow. Now, family wise, were t hey bitter against each other? I would have to say yes. But it wasn't, the general public, if I recall, I may be wrong, but there was no animosity that they were glad this happened, and this. No, I don't recall that at all. AV: Okay. So were you getting any news from your uncle while he was there fighting in Spain? Letters, or ? How did you keep informed? AG: Did my uncle and my father receive ? AV: Yes. AG: Ana, I would say yes. I am pretty sure that there was some, very little correspondence. But there must have been some correspon dence. Where is it at? I don't know. There was correspondence you brought it up to me. Like I told you, I said, it opened up a big avenue for our family over here, and we greatly appreciate it. But, I am pretty sure that there was some communication betwee n the brothers. Spain and how, how did he manage? I don't know. AV: I mean, you don't remember, growing up during the war, and maybe your parents


20 talking about what Pepe's doing or, "I got a letter from Pepe," or "Pepe was in that battle; I wonder how he did." Is that ? AG: No. No, that I. No, and that's a shame, because I'm pretty sure Ana, that there was something said. And again. Tell me how my father brought me up. Because my father was always saying to me Side A ends; side B begins AV: Okay, so, your father always told you that he was also your best friend? AG: Not only was he my father, but he was always my friend. What he meant by that, he made it very clear: any problem I mean whatever problem you come to me first. Because I am your best friend, and we will solve it. I re member that. And I passed that o n to my kids, my three sons. That I remember. So, with that, if there was any communication, I'm sure that it was said while I was there, but I didn't retai n it. Was anything hidd en from us about Pepe? No. Can I prove what they said, what was involved? I'm sorry. I forgot. AV: But, for instance, do you remember reading in La Gaceta like sometimes they would have these articles about him. Was that something that you kind of knew that your uncle was there, and ? AG: No. I knew he was there, I knew he was fighting. AV: Did that affect you in any way, I mean, did people know that you were the nephew of this brigadista ? AG: What about it? AV: Did that affect you, growing up, in any way? T hat people AG: No, no Ana, no. It didn't affect me because I had two uncles out there, fighting against each other. I only knew one. But I also knew that the other was the youngest brother of my father. And that was enough. That was enough to know; that I loved both of them. I respected both of them. So no. I also knew that they, I had aunts. They were married. And their husbands were fighting against their brother in laws. No animosity. Did it affect me? Did any ? No. No Because I didn't meet anybody that would come up to me or say anything. I d on't know what, any bad thing, I w ouldn't stand for it. But did I take advantage of it, or something? No. No, because it was, there were two brothers fighting against each other. Why would I be proud against Pepe when I knew that Oscar was out there, and I would have the sa m e love for him. So it was a now, talking to you, that is, I'm pretty sure, that's why my uncles were never too freely telling me. Because my brother's over here telling us this; I don't know what my other brother's doing.


21 So that, they were in a big turmoil. A big conflict. Two brother s fighting against each other. I did not, having this conversation with you, probably that's why some of this didn't stay with me. And I think that's the whole thing. The whole thing. And I do remember that my two, my father and my uncle, they had it bad. Knowing that two brothers were against each other. And brother in laws again st each other. AV: Now, when you, you were fourteen at that time? AG: Fourteen, fifteen, at the most. AV: You were already aware that your uncles are fighting. AG: Well, I AV: How did you understand the war? What was this war about for you? AG: Yo u wan t me to tell you what I understood about that ? AV: Yes. As far as you can remember when you were fourteen years old? Now you probably see it in a different way. AG: Yes, well I can remember this. That the k ing was out. The Republic came in. There was a conflict. They wanted their k ing back. They went to Franco, because he was the pro bably the largest, the biggest g eneral then, in experience in Morocco and stuff like that, ho ping that they would bring the m onarchy back, or the r oyalty back. And, which didn't happen. Franco stayed there. And I also remember this about the Civil War. That, okay? That I remember nothing to do with my family but the war. My uncle and my father. That Spain was used as a proving ground for Ger many and Italy. Their air force, their tanks, their tactics. That I remember. AV: You remember that. AG: And I remember the atrocity of the German bombing. Madrid and stuff like that. That I recall time and time again. That that was used, Spain was used as a proving ground for Germany and Italy. AV: Was that something that was in the news here in Tampa? AG: Oh yes. I'm pretty sure it was. If I was fourteen, fifteen, and I knew about it, I'm sure that ev erybody else knew about it. And I also heard can't prove it that this Madrid, this open city bombing, was mostly German. They were testing their stukas, dive bombers. That's what I understand. AV: Now, how about the reaction of the people here? Why do you think the people were so supportive here of the Sp anish Republic?


22 AG: You know that's a good question. Which is true. Which is true. I would say because we had more poor people here in Tampa than well although I understand that there were some well to do p eople, but I think it was kept o n the hush hush that they were supportive of the Loyalists. My thought, train of thought is: number one, is because they were very, they were poor. What was happening in Spain, it was about time to make a change. They made the change, and all of a sudden, said N o, we wan t the aristocrat back. So, being that here they were all workers and struggling, and that's why they were, the percentage was a heck of a lot. For the Loyalists. There were some Franco people here. But I never saw, Ana, I never saw a big demonstration, a b ig fight, or nothing like that. Two different groups there. I'm sure there were. But I don't remember, or hearing about it or anything like that. So. My reason why, my thought, train of thought, why there were more Loyalists here, because they were tired of what went o n in Spain. AV: I see. Now, how about this Popular Front? This organization that was organized here to support Spain? The Republic in Spain, the Frente Popular? AG: All those drives? AV: What do you remember of some of the events they organized? AG: Ana, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I will be very frank with you. I don't ever remember participating o n anything. And then, then they turn around and these girls say, "Sure, you were there!" I don't remember. AV: Yes, Do you remember picnics, for instance, at La Columna? AG: Oh yes! AV: Okay. What can you tell me about that? AG: Well the, now, I remember AV: The picnics, like this picnic we have here in this picture; do you remember something like that? AG: No, I don't remember anything like that. Was this at a picnic? AV: Yes. That was at a picnic in La Columna. And all these children are dressed up as milicianos and they used to sing the songs, and you never participated in that? AG: No, Ana. No, no. AV: Okay. AG: I don't remember


23 AV: You remember the speakers? Anyone, all these speakers would come to Centro Asturiano, and talk? AG: No. No, no. I don't remember that, Ana. Again, I don't remember, I probably didn't participate in it. But I guarantee you that my parents, my two unc les my father and my uncle did. But I can't give you no material o n that. But picnics? Picnics I do remember. Oh yes I remember the picnics. I remember, but I can't recall none of this. AV: What do you recall of the picnics? AG: Remember what you s aid about social life? AV: Uh huh ? AG: I remember where, a lot of, we used to have a lot of fun. Parents. It was a picnic. The food was either cooked there or was catered in, and something like that. The older people would love to dance, and us kids would j ust be running in the country, wild. I remember that. And I also remember this now you're bringing something up I remember one time, I can't even remember the club. You had, your parents had to be from, Espa –oles, and we put o n a dance at one of the picnic s. Now you see, now you're bringing up an avenue there. But it was a folk dance. Okay? AV: La danza monta – esa ? Somebody else mentioned that to me. It was a picnic of the Loyal Knights of America? AG: Loyal Knights of America! AV: And there was this danza monta – esa with sticks or something, with your arms raised ? AG: Okay, and we used to okay, al l right. We, if you want to call it that, you call it that. AV: Yes, I don't know, I'm just saying AG: I remember that. I remember that, and I remembe r having a crush o n one of the girl s that I met there. But that fel l right away. Okay, La Monta – esa is some maybe that's what it was. AV: I don't know. AG: And we used to participate, something like that. But other than that, we didn't have no uniforms. We had some kind of a costume but it wasn't AV: Do y ou remember singing any of the s ongs? This No Pasar‡ n! or anything like that?


24 AG: Bueno, yo me acuerdo de eso: "Y a Madrid No Pasar‡ n!" Yo me acuerdo de eso. AV: That was one of their AG: But I don't remember, don't you dare ask me to sing it because Si, yo me acuerdo de eso "Y a Madrid No Pasar‡ n!" Did we sing that? I don't remember. AV: How about demonstrations. Do you remember the demonstrations? There were some demonstrations. AG: No. There were some, I'm sure but I don't remember. Ana, I'm sorry, did I participate? I don't remember. AV: Okay. How about your parents' participation, I mean what do you remember of them, what did they do in terms of helping the Republic? Do you remember them doing anything? AG: My parents AV: In what ways did they help that you remember? AG: my parents, when it came to demonstrations, or something like that, I don't re member them participating. But I can not believe that they did not. They had to. But I can't remember. I remember them struggling to save a quarter or a dime or something like that, to the donation of whatever. Especially the ambulance. AV: You remember the ambulances? AG: Yes. Oh yes. AV: What do you remember of that? AG: Like. I was never, participated, but I remember the, there was a girl, several girls there, but one of them was Aida del Valle 1 I remember she coming by the house t o collect, going to different places to collect. Som e weeks we could give her a dim e or a quarter, some weeks we couldn't. I remember that. I don't remember me doing it; I'm sure I didn't do it. AV: Right. Now, let me ask you something. Growing up in a ma rriage between Italian and Spaniard, was there any conflict between Italians and Spaniards? Because Mussolini was supporting Franco in Spain. Was there any debate about that? AG: Oh, I'm sure there was. I'm sure there was. But demonstrations? I don't reca ll anything like that. A lot of my friends knew that I was part Italian. Nothing was said against me about that. Why? Because maybe my uncle was there, I don't know. I don't 1 Aida Azpeitia, nŽe del Valle, was also interviewed for this project.


25 know. But there was no. I don't recall anything like that. Sure that there was. I'm sure that there was. But again now, people here in Tampa were a bigger percentage Sicilian. From the island of Sicily, not Italy. Maybe that has something to do with it. Sicily was looked down. T he Italians a ll looked down o n Sicily. So, maybe that's why we didn't see any big demonstration against the Italian. Maybe up north, New York, something like that. But here in Tampa, I don't recall. AV: So, there weren't, I mean, do you remember the react ion of the other communities? Like the Italians or the Cubans towards this situation in Spain? Was the response of the community hom ogeneous, would you say? In term s of support to the Republic, or ? AG: I can tell you this. At that time, about '36 or '37, like my mother and father they allowed our intermarriages already. So, there were a lot of Italians that were supportive of the Loyalists. AV: The Loyalists? AG: Yes. And Cubans, much to my surprise, they were not with Franco. Maybe some were, but mostl y were Loyalists. AV: Why did that surprise you? AG: Why? No, it did not surprise me. AV: Oh, it didn't surprise you. AG: No, it didn't surprise me. No. Cuba, first chance that they had, they got out of Spain. And naturally that means that they had no love for the royalties out there. But they were very supportive of the because also, the Spaniard people and the Italian people were very supportive of the Cuban, when Marti AV: During the Cuban w ar for i ndependence. AG: was there, yes, went there, Now, and a lot of Spaniards, although the war was against Spain, they were supportive of them. I remember different things said about that and there was no Spaniards and Cubans fighting, and street brawls and, no, I don't remember that. Now, animosity agai nst Italians living here because Mussolini was involved? No. AV: I see. AG: No. I don't remember anything like that. And like I previously s aid, a lot of people knew that I was part Italian. Nothing was said. AV: Okay. How about the Americans, I mean th e Anglo Saxon; were they involved here in any way or, what is your feeling of, you know, what they thought about the war in


26 Spain? AG: No. My thought, at that age, they cared less. This was a war that they had nothing to do they were out there, this is im migrants that came down here, and it was rough for awhile, an immigrant down here. You know, we were looked down a little bit and stuff like that. But we out came them. So, the Anglo Saxons here weren't, they were indifferent, okay? They cared less. Althou gh I understand that we had, a lot of Anglo Saxons volunteered and went with the Lincoln Brigade and fought in Spain. But here in Tampa, no. AV: No? AG: Nothing was, I don't really remember any broadcast, or any news. The only news was the atrocity of th e bombing of Madrid, or something like that. But, to my knowledge, to start with, we couldn't afford a subscription to the Tribune or the Times okay? But, that's irrelevant be cause los lectores en las f‡ bricas they would tell the whole public what was go ing on. Which they got rid of the lectores later o n because the manufacturers didn't like the workers learning what's going o n around the world. So, going back to the Anglo Saxon, they were very indifferent. I do remember this, also again, you're opening another avenue United States let the Loyalists down on, some, they were expecting some kind of a deal, or ammunition, or something like that and it didn't go through. That was the camel that broke, that was the AV: Straw? AG: that broke the camel's b ack. Without that, Loyalists they had no chance after that. It was a useless battle after that. I remember that. AV: Yes. Do you remember how people here responded to that, the neutrality of the United States? AG: People here weren't too happy, were disappointed. But what could they do? What could they do? Nothing. You know here's something. A lot of Spaniard boys, a lot of Latin boys, got killed. My uncle was one of them, t hat's o n my mother's side. But when Wo rld War II came out, I don't remember my father saying, "No, no, you can't fight for the United States because this is what they did to me." No. No. They loved Spain. But, they knew that this was their country. So. AV: Your parents were citizens, or beca me citizens la t er ? AG: My father became citizen. AV: When? Do you remember? During the war, or ? AG: My father became a citizen no, no, after the war.


27 AV: After World War II ? AG: Yes. AV: And your mother well your mother had been born already in Tampa? Your mother was already born in Tampa. AG: That's a good subject. My mother was a n, she was born here. Upon marrying my father, she left her citizenship. AV: Oh, right. AG: People don't believe me. AV: Yes. AG: No listen she was born here. She married my father, she lost her citizenship. AV: Because she was married to a foreigner, right? AG : When World War II broke out, I said, Papa, quiero ir para la Marina ." He didn't say, No, no puedes ." He says, S on, you gotta go; one way or the other you gotta go. You wanna go into the Navy? God bless you." My two cousins went, my uncle went. My uncle got killed in Germany. So there was no what the United States did for some reason AV: It didn't have any releva nce to that. I see. AG: Strange, but, that's the way it was. And unfortunately, the guy, the person that's my way of thinking the person that stopped it, was a very prominent person and a very he did a lot for the poor people was Delano Roosevelt. And he's the one that I understand put a stop to this, to that ammunition whatever it was. So to answer your question, how did my folks, and other folks feel towards the United States? Were they intimidated? I don't think so. It's just that it happened, it hap pened. Hey, let's keep an with our lives. AV: I see. So, when the war was over AG: Civil War. AV: Yes, the civil war in Spain, when it ended, and Franco won AG: Yes. AV: did people here more or less stopped helping?


28 AG: No They weren't AV: Wh at happened? I mean AG: Well they were very, very sad. Very disappointed. T hey were very disappointed. But they didn't stop loving Spain. AV: Right. AG: No, they were still AV: But did they stop the collections, and, you know, sending things to Spain? I mean what happened to the Popular Front and to all these committees and all these things? AG: I don't know. That's a good question. What happened? And I would say they just disbanded. AV: You think so? AG: I no. That's what I would think. That's a good question. I wonder. Do you have anything o n that? Okay, al l right. No, Ana, I don't rememb er. AV: You don't remember anything. AG: I don't remember. I don't remember. I do remember, much later after the Civil War, things in Spain being very very bad. I do remember my father and my uncle getting some clothes, something like that, and sending them to their family in Spain. AV: I see. AG: Upon after World War II, me coming back and my cousin coming back he was in the A r m y, I was in the Navy. All my uniforms, all his uniforms, pea coat, overcoat, all of that was sent to Spain. Because we didn't need it over here. I remember that. And I remember my, which a lot, a lot of my friends in the service, when they came they did the same thing. So, Ana. What guarantee did they have that they would go to where they for some reason they did. Whatever my father and my uncle sent, it went to their family. And Franco was there. Now let me say this; I mean let's be very frank about this. They despised Franco for a long time. For a long time. But a f ter a while how l ong I don't know they discovered that, hey, this man, he's a dictator, yes. But he's done some good for Spain. And when he was able to keep Spain out of World War II how he managed, I don't know but he was able. After awhile AV: They thought that was a good thing?


29 AG: Well they, good thing, or he 's there. Okay, he's there. And the way I understand it, he did some dam n very good things. AV: Do you remember when he died in '75? I mean were people here kind of was there any reaction o r was ready to move on? AG: There was no, I don't think it was any bad reaction or anything like that. Just the news. The news that he died. The news that he was sick. And, this and that. Didn't he bring in the royals, one of the royals? AV: Yes. AG: He brought it in? AG: And, if I recall, that was kind of accepted? Because, it was a very limite d, the way he came in, the way I understand. The news was here, but the reaction of, here wasn't, que se alegraran that he was dead, no I don't recall that. The man died and he died; that's all. AV: I see. Now, what happened to Pepe, then? AG: Pepe, that's a good question, and a good, I have that, I learn ed that a little while back. Pepe was a POW for 18 months. In on e of your articles there, I learned we learn ed that he was a POW for 18 months. AV: He was in Spain all those months? AG: In Spain. He was there, but my oldest Vicente, his oldest brother, got news that he was missing in action, and they didn't know whe ther it was a German bomb or a n Italian bomb that killed him. But in the, but it then turned out he was a prisoner of war. He served 18 months. Oscar managed to go to this, it must have been a disarrayed, disorganized camp or something, he managed to go there it was after the war, now get his brother, get him out of there, and hide him some place in Pravia. Because if his brother would not have done that, they would have killed Pepe. Pepe was a loud mouth, was a very outspoken, well, there it is, very outspoken le dieron palo But he wouldn't stop. He was a very, devoted for his cause. That's how he got out of prison. Oscar, until things were better in there. And I guess later on, con los golpes he was injured. He died and he's buried in Spain. And I'm pretty sure he's buried in Pravia. AV: So when did he die? I mean AG: What year? AV: Ho w soon after the whole event took place? After the war. AG: Pepe didn't live, after the Civil War Pepe didn't live I don't think he lived five,


30 maybe seven years. AV: So in the '40s maybe. In the '40s he died, something like that? AG: In the '40s. AV: And he stayed then with your family there in Asturias with Oscar, and ? AG: Oh yes. Yes. AV: So they stayed together? AG: They, yes. They stayed together. Because they had in Asturias there was his brother Oscar, and two sisters, two sisters there in Pravia. AV: Right. AG: One in Gij— n y una o dos en Madrid. It was a big family. He stayed, yes, but he stayed in Asturias. The way I understand it, he stayed in Asturias. And he died there. And they buried him someplace in Pravia. Which, they have a family plot, most likely was his, where he's at. AV: I see. Do you know anything about what he did for a living there in Spain in these last years? AG: No, what? AV: What did he do for a living? I wonder, maybe it was difficult for him to find employment AG: It was very difficult, yes it was difficult. Pepe was not. Work wasn't for Pepe. AV: Did he write, maybe? That must have been difficult also to write for AG: Well, he probably wrote, but did they do anything, or was he making any money? I cannot answer you that. I think mostly that Pepe, how he survived was because of his sister and his brother. AV: Yes. Okay. Since your uncle had been a volunteer, I mean was there any contact between your family and the families of othe r volunteers who left Tampa to f ight in Spain, do you remember? AG: Was there any communication? AV: Yes. To see where, have y ou got a letter from your son? O r because many people from Tampa fought in Spain


31 AG: There were quite a few. Quite a few. AV: I was just wondering whether you knew about them AG: Yes. Again. Ana, again, I don't recall. My father, my uncle saying Fulano recibi — noticias." I don't remember that. I just don't. I'm sure there was. And something was said, but I don't recall. AV: Okay. How about radio? Did you have a radio at home? AG: No. I didn't have a radio at home, but somebody in the family had a radio, and noticias AV: Did you listen to the noticias ? AG: No. AV: No? AG: No. I was more interested in going out to the park to play. AV: Okay. AG: That's, that's the way it is. AV: It makes sense. AG: That's the way it is. That's the way it is. My father, I'm coming t o the conclusion now that my unc le and my father, it was bad enough for them, to get kids involved. La miseria and something like that. But how they managed they also knew "L ook, this is what's going on." How deep, they didn't go very deep. Because, that's the way it is. But w ere we awa re of what was going o n in Spain? Yes. Now these little communication, stuff like that? No. AV: Yes. Okay. How about the Church. The Catholic Church and the Latin community here. What do you think about it? AG: Well. The Catholic Church here in Tampa was very very, not liked. Not liked at all. AV: Why not? AG: Well, the involvement that they had in the Civil War. The Catholic Church. The involvement in Spain. We hear a lot of things, that churches were used for army, snipes, a lot of, just hearsay, that's all it was. To answer your question, no the Catholics here, it was not liked at all.


32 AV: Were there conflicts between the Catholic Church and the Latin co mmunity who supported ? AG: I don't recall no conflicts. I don't recall no stones, no nothing, tearing up the church no, I don't recall any of that. I don't recall people being beat up or slained, or something like that, they would continue going to churc h. Now, I say this. My father was his father was a devout Catholic. I was brought up as a Catholic. I don't and I'm sure that there were some Catholic people who obviously, they would go to church. And I don 't rem ember anyone saying no, no, that they were told not to go. I don't recall that. Were they bitter against the Catholic? Yes. Any demonstration? I don't recall. AV: I see. AG: I'm not saying that there wasn't any, but I don't recall. AV: Okay, befo re we c onclude this interview, I would like to ask you a couple of questions. When you look back from today to these events about the Spanish Civil War, what would you say was the impact that the war had an your life? If any impact. AG: The impact that it had o n me? Well, I learned. The impact. I learned that civil war is hell. I can, that's one word that, I can't describe it any better than that. I couldn't understand why two families, fighting against each other. And the impact was how could a nation bomb an o pen city and get away with it? That's the impact I got; one of the impact I got. And also the impact was the proving ground of using Spain Germany and Italy especially Germany. That's the only impact I got. AV: Did it shape your life in any other way, wou ld you say? AG: No. AV: Not really. AG: No. It didn't. I have no Germans in but it didn't stop me from not being interested in what Italy was doing and what they're not doing. Because, whether you, it's still some of those genes are from up there. When it came to me. It didn't stop me from, well what are they doing, and why is he, Mussolini, invading Ethiopia. No, it didn't stop me from thinking that way. Germany, I never cared, for something like that. AV: Okay. Before we conclude the interview, I wo uld like to ask you also is there anything else you would like to add, or some aspect that yo u think we should have touched o n that maybe we didn't, or some information y ou wan t to make sure that is included, that maybe I didn't ask you about, or ? AG: Well. This is. I've always been very very interested in history. I guess I took after my father. These are things that, later on, I've made some notes here, you saw that. I


33 would like t o ask different people, and if I find more ammunition I use that word ammunition a lot yes, I'm pursuing it more and more. You have started something! I'm telling you, Ana. So does that answer your question? AV: Yes. AG: Am I gonna stop here tonight, today? No, I will continue what's going on. Like I previously said, we are gonna get in touch with the husband of a cousin the only cousin I got to know because she came down here in Pravia, and ask them more about what happened. Can yo u talk to us? Can you elaborate an something like that? Where is Pepe buried? Y Oscar? Oscar happens to be his father in law. AV: Right. AG: To the person we're gonna talk to. So, yes. Then, we didn't communicate with Madrid. Don't ask me why. I have thr ee cousins in Madrid. But con Victor, that's the guy in Madrid, in Pravia, he's a well, he's in the banking business. He's a well, he's an intelligent man. We're gonna ask him, Victor, dime, por favor Get this information for me. I'll call you back later. And maybe we don't want him just because he was married to my cousin my cousin is dead; I want him to be he's still part of the family. I want to know more about my family. And I will get some, he loves the history also. Am I gonna continue pursuing this history of the Civil War? Yes. Is that an answer that you are looking for? AV: Yes. I was just AG: Sometimes I get carried away. Okay. AV: No, is there anything else that you may be some information that you wan t to make sure, some comment or some last thought that you have that you would like to have included in this recording? AG: Included? No. AV: In this interview. AG: No, no. But af ter this interview, if I run across some information, I will tell you about it. AV: Sure. AG: You might have the information. But, I'm gonna tell you anyway. Yes. All right? AV: Okay. Anything else you w an t to add? AG: No, no.


34 AV: Okay. This concludes the interview with Mr. Anthony Granell. And I want to thank you Tony very much for par ticipating in this project. And I hope that you get more information about your family. AG: By all means. AV: Information we can use also in this project. Thank you very much. End of interview