Cave Talk

Cave Talk

Material Information

Cave Talk
Series Title:
Cave Talk
George Veni ( suggested by )
National Cave Association
Publication Date:


Subjects / Keywords:
Resource Management ( local )
serial ( sobekcm )
United States


General Note:
Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring together show cave owners and operators from across the United States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave industry.
Open Access - Permission by Publisher
Original Version:
(October 2008)
General Note:
See Extended description for more information.

Record Information

Source Institution:
University of South Florida Library
Holding Location:
University of South Florida
Rights Management:
All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
K26-00870 ( USFLDC DOI )
k26.870 ( USFLDC Handle )
19386 ( karstportal - original NodeID )

USFLDC Membership

Added automatically
Karst Information Portal

Postcard Information



This item has the following downloads:

Full Text


1 National Caves Association Susan Berdeaux, Coordinating Director P.O. Box 280, Park City, KY 42160 270-749-2228 fax 270-749-2428 FALL 2008 CONVENTION 2008 We are looking forward to seeing all of you in at Lake Raystown Resort in Pennsylvania next month! If you have not registered for the convention there is still time to do so. Visit for the details and registration form. For help with packing...the weather can vary greatly in the fall in central PA. Daytime averages are in the upper 60's with nighttime averages in the upper 40's. However, daytime highs can be in the lower 80's. Best advice is to dress in layers. As for what to bring...this is an outdoor recreation area, so most events will be informal. The banquet on Thursday night will be a sit down served meal. You may want to consider leaving the jeans and T-shirts behind for this event. What's most important to us is that you make it to PA, enjoy and learn from the experience. See you soon! PRE-CONVENTION INVITATIONS CRYSTAL CAVE & LOST RIVER CAVERNS Crystal Cave and Lost River Caverns WELCOME all NCA members to visit and tour both caves on Sunday, October 5, 2008 prior to driving to Lincoln Caverns for the start of the 2008 NCA Convention. Crystal Cave will be offering cave tours starting at 10:00 AM. Visitors are also welcome to play Miniature Golf and tour our Museum. A buffet luncheon in our food building will be served from 11:45 to 12:30. Lost River Caverns is a short 30-minute drive to Hellertown where a tour of the cavern is planned for 1:15 PM. Light refreshments will be served subsequently. An enjoyable day is planned and we hope you all will consider visiting both caves. We look forward to seeing and meeting you. Kathy can be contacted at if you plan to visit or if you have any questions. Thank you. Sincerely, Kathy Campbell, Crystal Cave & Bob Gilman, Lost River Caverns OFFICERS: President : Steve Thompson Fantastic Caverns, MO 417-833-2010 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Vice President : Eric Evans Ohio Caverns, OH 937-465-4017 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Secretary Treasurer : Susan Berdeaux Diamond Caverns, KY 270-749-2228 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Past President : Brad Wuest Natural Bridge Caverns, TX 210-651-6101 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------REGIONAL DIRECTORS Region One : (CT, DE, ME, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT) Greg Beckler Natural Stone Bridge & Caves 518-494-2283 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Two : (MD, VA, WV, KY) Rod Graves Luray Caverns, VA 540-743-6551 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Three : (IL,IN, MI, OH) Claudia Yundt Squire Boone Caverns, IN 812-732-4382 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Four : (IA, KS, MO, NE) David Thompson Bridal Cave, MO 573-346-2676 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Five : (MN, MT, ND, SD, WI) Joe Klimczak Cave of the Mounds, WI 608-437-3038 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Six : (CA, ID, NV, OR, WA) Steve Fairchild – Moaning Cavern, CA 209-736-0330 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Seven : (AZ, CO, NM, UT, WY) Steve Runkle Cave of the Winds, CO 719-685-5444 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Eight : (AR, LA, OK, TX) Michelle Devaney Longhorn Caverns, TX 830-598-CAVE ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Nine : (AL, FL, GA, MS, NC, SC, TN,) Patty Perlaky – Raccoon Mt. Caverns, TN 423-821-9403 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Region Ten : (AK, HI, Bermuda, International) Jeanne Gurnee – Goodlettsville, TN 615-264-0019 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2Crystal Cave 963 Crystal Cave Road Kutztown, PA 19530 610-683-6765 Lost River Caverns 726 Durham Street Hellertown, Pa 18055 610-838-8767 DIRECTIONS From Harrisburg to Crystal Cave: I-78 East to Exit 35 (Lenhartsville). Take 143 South for 10 miles following signs to Crystal Cave. Approximate travel time 1 hours. From Indian Echo Caverns to Crystal Cave: From Hellertown, take 322 East to Hershey Park Drive ( towards Hershey Park), take 39 North to 81 North. Take I-78 East to Exit 35 at Lenhartsville. Follow 183 South for 10 miles to Crystal Cave. Approximate travel time is 1 hours. From Crystal Cave to Lost River Caverns: Exit the parking lot and make a right at the stop sign onto Crystal Cave Road. Follow for 1.5 miles. Make a left at the next stop sign. Follow signs to Rt. 222 North. Tak e Krumsville Exit Rt 737 North, for 4.5 miles to Rt I78/22 East. Take exit #67 (Hellertown-Bethlehem). At the traffic light turn left onto Rt. 412 South. At the 4th light, turn left onto Penn Street. Continue straight for mile. Lost River Caverns is on the right. Approximate travel time is 30 minutes. INDIAN ECHO CAVERNS Saturday October 4TH, starting at 4pm Cavern tours will be available followed by a 5:30 to 7 pm "Sparkling" Reception serving Champagne, Sparkling wine, beer, soda and of course.....FOOD! We are located 5 minutes from Hershey and the He rshey attractions, 30 minutes from Lancaster Amish Country and 15 minutes from the Harrisburg International Airport. 2008 NCA CONVENTION VENDOR SHOW WOW! The summer season is over and the 2008 NCA Convention is right around the corner. The first day of the convention (Mon. Oct. 6th) is packed with great vendors and great ideas for your 2009 Gift Shop. These vendors are traveling to Pennsylvania just to see YOU. There will be lots of time to talk to each vendor and not be rushed by the thousands of other gift shop buyers at a regular gift show. Take your time and stroll through the displays and pick the vendorÂ’s minds. Please keep in mind that the success of this vendor show will result in lower convention registration fees.. All proceeds from the vendor show goes towards the conv ention expenses and that helps keep your registration fees low. We would love to see this vendor show happen every year to help offset the convention costs but its success is all up to YOU. If you see something you like, Order It! If you are looking for a specific item, ask the vendors, they might know where you can get it. Use th is great resource to help you, make your gift shop an even bigger success then what it is! We cannot stress enough that the success of the vendor show is all up to YOU. The vendors are attending for your benefit, but we have to make it worth their time also If they feel the show was a success for them they will return next year! ItÂ’s now up to you! Bring thos e inventories and be ready to buy some great merchandise.


32008 NCA Convention Vendor List: SQUIRE BOONE CAVERNS, INC. Mauckport, IN Cave related items & personalization A. T. STORRS LTD. Vancouver, B. C. Canada Leading supplier of handcrafted jewelry and giftware for the travel retailer. Lines include: Wild Pearle, Medicine Stone, Northwoods, Jade, Hematite, & Castings. Newly developed for the Cavern Market. Bat designs available in all of our lines. WESTERN WOODS, INC St. George, UT Rock products, tumbled stones, specimens, jewelry, and home dcor. PENNSYLVANIA DUTCH CANDIES CAMPHILL, PA Candy, snacks, novelties OPI Ohiopyle, PA Screen printed apparel and plush FAMILY TEES & SWEATS Lemasters, PA Souvenirs and Apparel BARTKY MINERAL ENTERPRISES Livingston, NJ Minerals, fossils, meteorites, specimen quality and price points for children as well. Bookends, calcite, amethyst, quartz, key chains, scorpions, etc. SPEAR AND ASSOCIATES Boothbay, ME Polar Graphicsfleece, t-shirts, hats, and drink ware. Wheeler Mfg.jewelrycoppersterling silver and gold earrings, pendants and ringsstainless steel bands. MIKE FEINBERG CO. Pittsburgh, PA Health and beauty over the counter itemsimpulse giftsretro candy change makerssnackstoysgiftsnovelties sugar-free candyregular candysundries. R. S. COVENANT O’Fallon, MO Sterling silver and fashion rings and jewelry for men, women and children. STONEWORDS Branchville, NJ Engraved stones, diamond crystal paperweights, semi-precious stone jewelry. MV SPORT Bay Shore, MI Apparel WILDTHINGS SNAP ONS, INC. Fairfax, CA Interactive t-shirts and accessories with snap-on toys, including bats, insects, snacks, frogs, etc. JACOBSON HAT CO., INC. Scranton, PA Headwear FOCUS ON SOUVENIRS San Clemente, CA Custom designed souvenirspinskey ringsmagnetspatcheshiking stick medallions. ROAD RUNNER MARKETING, INC. Lewisberry, PA Silver Streak-a great rock company; Eagle Productst-shirt and apparel. KAPAN KENT Oceanside, CA Custom glassware. PLATTE RIVER TRADING Littleton, CO Wildlife plush stuffed animals and puppets, nature t-shirts, hats and sweats. AURORA MINERAL CORPORATION Freeport, NY Importers of minerals, gifts & fossils. O’MEARA ASSOCIATES Bedford, NH Prairie Mountaint-shirts, Jackson Pacificbrass ornaments, Kapan-KentGlassware. LIGHT SOUTHWEST, INC. Albuquerque, NM L E D lighting products & lighting design. ACCELL GRAPHICS London, Ontario Canada Custom graphics – postcards, etc. TOUR-MATE SYSTEMS CANADA Toronto, Canada Provides hardware, software, and content creation for clients. WAYNE CARVER WO ODWORKING Rockford, IL Laser engraved wood and anodized metal souvenirs. PRO INSURANC E SERVICES Homer Glan, IL NCA Insurance Broker


4CONVENTION COMMITTEE Fall is here again, and that means it is almost Convention Time! Time to enjoy the change of season and network with other members of our show cave indus try “family.” We hope everyone has registered and made plans to attend NCA Convention ’09 in Pennsylvania. If you have not made those plans, there is still time so be sure to read the Convention ’09 article in this issue of Cave Talk and visit the NCA Convention website: to access the latest information and/or register. This has been a challenging year of business for many of us, and many of the same pressures that have caused that are making it challenging for the NCA Convention Committee to find member caves to host our annual Conventions and challenging for Convention hosts to plan interesting, entertaining, productive and affordable events. The Convention Committee needs your help in order to respond to these challenges in ways that best serve this organization and its members. Please let the members of this committee hear from you regarding the following Convention-related issues: 1. If we plan our annual Conventions for the next few years to be held as close to the central part of the United States as possible, will that help you be able to attend? 2. Conventions are typically three and one-half days l ong, not counting the extra day required for committee and board members to attend meetings prior to the opening day of the annual meeting of the membership. Do you want us to shorten the Conv entions to two and one-half days? This will mean few, if any, break-out sessions and field trips during the body of the Convention. Field trips would have to be planned before and after the body of the Convention and would possibly be an additional cost to participate, separate from the Convention registration fee. 3. Many of you have asked for a Vendor Show at our C onventions, so this year in Pennsylvania you will get an awesome Vendor Show. Your response to this Vendor Show will determine if we do another one. Offering a Vendor Show at NCA Convention places addi tional space requirements on the Convention site facility, and limits the choices and cost level of potential Convention sites. We really need to hear from you on just how important it is to you to have the Vendor Show, and we will consider the amount of business you give the vendors who participate this year as part of your response. 4. Every year for the past 5 years, Convention attendees have been asked to indicate the time of year that they prefer the annual Convention to be held. We need to hear from all NCA members on this issue. If you will never attend a Convention, no matter when it is held, then your response is not needed. But for all other members, please tell us the ideal week out of the year that you want to go to the NCA Convention. For those of you who are long-range planners, we want to tantalize you with thoughts of NCA Convention 2009. If you are keeping up with the future Convention site planning, you will recall that we intended to return to the west coast for ’09. However, the hotels in California were being very uncooperative, so our ’10 hosts agreed to step up and welcome the NCA to Branson, Missouri in 2009! The Herschend Family and staff of Talking Rocks Cavern are already busily planning for Conv ention ’09. If you want to know more, be at their invitation to the membership of NCA at the close of Convention ’08 in Pennsylvania. Please respond to me or any member of the Convention Committee. Committee members and their contact information are listed on the member pages of the NCA website, See you around a campfire on Lake Raystown, Pennsylvania! Joye Wuest NCA Convention Committee Chairman 210.651.6101 Office 210.833.2532 Cell


5 1st ANNUAL PAST PRESIDENTS BREAKFAST & MEETING The first annual Past Presidents Breakfast & Meeting will be held this year during the NCA convention on Thursday, October 9th, 2008 from 7:30 am – 8:30 am in the River Birch Room. Past Presidents please remember to RSVP to Susan. This will be the first gathering and meeting held of the new Past Presidents Committee. The Committee is made up of all the NCA’s Past Presidents and the most recent Past President will serve as the Committee’s Chair. And what will this Committee do? Well that will be for us to figure out at the meeting. For starters we are going to organize all of our contact information so we can easily communicate with each other and so we can be a resource for NCA members, the Board and Executive Committee. We will also serve as a source of advice for current Presidents. Beyond that I am sure the Past Presidents will figure out some other productive things we as a Committee can do to benefit the NCA! Sincerely, Brad Wuest, Past President & Past Presidents Committee Chair Past Presidents of the National Caves Association 1965-1966 Jack Herschend – Marvel Cave, Missouri 1966-1967 Robert Hudson – Meramec Caverns, Missouri 1967-1968 H.T.N Graves – Luray Caverns, Virginia 1968-1969 Rodney F. Schaeffer – Howe Caverns, New York 1969-1971 Tom Gibson – Skyline Caverns, Virginia 1971-1973 Clara Heidemann – Natural Bridge Caverns, Texas 1973-1975 Carl Gibson – Ruby Falls, Tennessee 1975-1977 H.L. “Andy” Anderson – Lake Shasta, California 1977-1979 Roy Davis – Cumberland Caverns, Tennessee 1979-1980 Harrison Terk – Howe Caverns, New York 1980-1982 Jack Steiner –Ruby Falls, Tennessee 1982-1984 Gordon Smith – Marengo Cave National Landmark, Indiana 1984-1986 Joe Waggoner – Lost Sea, Tennessee 1986-1988 Robert “Bob” Bogart – Mark Twain Cave, Missouri 1988-1990 Russ Campbell – Fantastic Caverns, Missouri 1990-1992 Lester Turilli – Meramec Caverns, Missouri 1992-1994 Jim Richards – Bluesprings Cavern, Indiana 1994-1996 Ann Molosky – Lincoln Caverns, Pennsylvania 1996-1998 Roger Lafebvre – Lake Shasta Caverns, California 1998-2000 Max Evans – Ohio Caverns, Ohio 2000-2002 Steve Fairchild – Moaning Cavern, California 2002-2004 Richard “Dick” Bell – Seneca Caverns, Ohio 2004-2006 John Sagendorf – Howe Caverns, New York 2006-2008 Brad Wuest – Natural Bridge Caverns, Texas Current Steve Thompson – Fantastic Caverns, Missouri


6 NCA INSURANCE PROGRAM We trust you have had a successful season and are prepari ng for what hopes to be a great rest of the year. We look forward to seeing you at this yearÂ’s convention in Pennsylvania. In an effort to promote the beneficial changes to the NCA Insurance program we are reaching out to the membership before the convention. At the convention, representatives from our new broker team will be available for the entire convention. Space will be provided for them at the entrance to the conv ention hall. There they will catch up with old and new friends as well a provide information on your insurance program. Throughout the meeting, we encourage everyone to participate in learning more about the program but more importantly to take advantage of an offer to review your existing insurance coverages. We want you to walk away with specific ways to better protect your most impor tant asset. Please bring your entire insurance file and a comprehensive review will be completed. All policies w ill be returned to you prior to your departure. You will receive information on how you can obtain an in-person vi sit to your cave in addition to how you can request a quote on your next renewal. Our goal is to work with you in advance so we can properly underwrite your account to obtain the best program and pricing. As a special incentive, a drawing will be held for all cave owners that bring their policies. The selected winner will receive a credit on one eveningÂ’s room charge upon check out from the resort. On Tuesday morning, a presentation will be made addressing some of the key issues that were found during our visits to over thirty caves this past summer. The pr esentation will address such property issues as property valuation and appraisals, business interruption and extra expense exposures, the effects of ordinance and law changes, and how to protect your cave during major catastrophic events such as floods and earthquakes. Throughout the rest of the convention we will be on hand to listen and learn about the issues facing each cave to better address your needs. We will also be available to answer any questions you may have about the program in greater detail. Finally on Thursday evening, PRO Insurance Services and Markel Insurance Company will be hosting the closing dinner. In the meantime, if you would like more information about the program please let us know. If you do not plan on attending and would like us to arrange a mutually convenient time to visit your cave operation, please do not hesitate to contact Patrick OÂ’Sullivan at PRO Insurance Services at 866606-5152. We look forward to great times ahead for the NCA Insurance program and all the best for a successful convention. See you then! Steve Runkle Patrick OÂ’Sullivan Chairman Insurance Broker Insurance Committee INSURANCE RENEWAL UPDATE All insurance renewal proposals that have not been re ceived will be coming by mail and e-mail the week of September 15th. All proposals will be followed by a personal call to review the proposal and answer any questions you may have. At first glance, Markel has done a good job in addressing changes requested by the members with little or no additional premium as well as providing enhancements to t he existing coverage form. We are sure you will be pleased with the results of our efforts these past few months.


7 Patrick R. O'Sullivan, CIC, CRM, CSRM PRO Insurance Services, Inc. 13159 W. 143rd Street Homer Glen, IL 60491 708-675-1535 Phone 708-675-1539 Fax 708-655-5444 Mobile WEBSITE UPDATE We appreciate your patience as we make this transition from one webmaster to another on our website. Suggestions and comments are always welcome. We also need to know about any problems you may have. Tech chair Gary Berdeaux is working through some issues we had with the site and needs to know if there are other issues to address. Please let him know – CORRECTING ERRORS IN A DIGITAL MAP If you have problems with your address or your address needs to be corrected in a digital map, here’s how to fix it. There are 2 companies that provide the underly ing maps used by most navigation-device makers---Tele Atlas and Navteq. Garmin uses Navteq. For Navteq's error-reporting go to and click on "Map Reporter". For Tele Atlas go to and click on "Report Map Changes". Thanks to Grant Carey, Cave of the Winds CO, for the tip. GURNEE GUIDE The new, full-color edition of Gurnee Guide to American Show Caves is off the press and ready to ship to members of NCA. Many thanks for sending information about your cave and a color photo. The information about each cave includes mailing address, directions for reaching your cave, telephone and fax numbers, e-mail and website addresses, months, days, and hours the cave is open, the kinds of tours that are offered, and a list of the facilities on the premises. There is also a description of your cave to give an idea of what visitors will experience underground, as well as some cave history. This new all-color edition is perfect bound and has flood gloss aqueous coating on a color-photo cover. The 220-page book is printed on glossy paper and contains over 100 photos. It also includes information about the National Caves Association and our organization's mission. The book provides a permanent record that will be in the Library of Congress, and available in other libraries, bookstores, organizations, and to individuals throughout the country and overseas. Order books from R. H. Gurnee, Publisher, 720 Flat Ridge Road, Goodlettsville, TN 37072. Just e-mail or phone 615-264-0019 for discount prices.

Cave Talk is a
publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit
trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private
show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring
together show cave owners and operators from across the United
States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to
share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation
favorable to the show cave industry.


Download Options

Choose Size
Choose file type
Cite this item close


Cras ut cursus ante, a fringilla nunc. Mauris lorem nunc, cursus sit amet enim ac, vehicula vestibulum mi. Mauris viverra nisl vel enim faucibus porta. Praesent sit amet ornare diam, non finibus nulla.


Cras efficitur magna et sapien varius, luctus ullamcorper dolor convallis. Orci varius natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Fusce sit amet justo ut erat laoreet congue sed a ante.


Phasellus ornare in augue eu imperdiet. Donec malesuada sapien ante, at vehicula orci tempor molestie. Proin vitae urna elit. Pellentesque vitae nisi et diam euismod malesuada aliquet non erat.


Nunc fringilla dolor ut dictum placerat. Proin ac neque rutrum, consectetur ligula id, laoreet ligula. Nulla lorem massa, consectetur vitae consequat in, lobortis at dolor. Nunc sed leo odio.