Cave Talk

Cave Talk

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Cave Talk
Series Title:
Cave Talk
George Veni ( suggested by )
National Cave Association
Publication Date:


Subjects / Keywords:
Resource Management ( local )
serial ( sobekcm )
United States


General Note:
Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring together show cave owners and operators from across the United States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave industry.
Open Access - Permission by Publisher
Original Version:
(September 2013)
General Note:
See Extended description for more information.

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University of South Florida Library
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University of South Florida
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All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
K26-00895 ( USFLDC DOI )
k26.895 ( USFLDC Handle )
19411 ( karstportal - original NodeID )

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Karst Information Portal

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Robert A. Holt PO Box 625, Cobleskill, NY 12043 E xecutive Director Phone: 573 836 2256 E mail: September 2013 Message from the President a reminder of what is in store. Dee and I are looking forward to visiting two caves we have not had the pleasure of experiencing yet. We are also signed up for the canoe trip on Friday hope lots of you are going to join us! We are also looking forwar d to (and saving for) the upcoming ISCA Congress down under in Australia next November. That means we may limit some of our usual travel to trade/gift shows this year. But not to despair, we plan on doing lots of buying at this or Show and may even win $500.00 doing so! Read on to find out how. Love the article submitted by Teddy Jones as I can definitely relate to the content. Our number one lesson learned from convention cracker barrels is that your visitors (guests) may exh ibit totally different buying preferences than you do! We also sell out of those sea turtles each year (up here in the middle of the Adirondack Mountains). So follow the trends that others observe and then reap the rewards. Finally, if you have yet to f ill out the Economic Impact Survey please do so now. The more participants in the survey, the more accurate the information is. Go here: mRdpF0fBhX See you in October! Greg Beckler Welcome Village Originals We welcome Tony Grilli and the folks of Village Originals as our newest Affiliate Member of the NCA. You will see Tony during the Vendor Show at Convention. Welcome aboard Tony! OFFICERS President : Greg Beckler N atural Stone Bridge & Cave s NY Ph: 518 494 2283 Vice President : Steve Rawlings Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 209 728 2101 Secretary Treasurer : Bob Holt Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 573 836 2256 Past President : Eric Evans Ohio Caverns, OH Ph: 937 465 4017 REGIONAL DIRECTORS Region One : (CT, DE, ME, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT) Rob Arey Polar Caves Park NH Ph: 603 536 1888 Region Two : (MD, VA, WV, KY) Rho Lansden Lost River Cave & Valley, KY Ph: 270 393 0077 Region Three : (IL, IN, MI, OH) Claudia Yundt Squire Boone Caverns, IN Ph: 812 732 4382 Region Four : (AR, IA, KS, MO, NE) Steve Thompson Bridal Cave, MO Ph: 573 346 2676 Region Five : (MN, MT, ND, SD, WI) Joe Klimczak Cave of the Mounds, WI Ph: 608 437 3038 Region Six : (CA, ID, NV, OR, WA, AK, HI, Barbados, Ber muda) Matt Doyle Lake Shasta Caverns, CA Ph: 800 795 CAVE Region Seven : (AZ, CO, NM, UT, WY) Steve Runkle Cave of the Winds, CO Ph: 719 685 5444 Region Eight : (LA, OK, TX) Ed Mayfield Caverns of Sonora, TX Ph: 325 387 3105 Region Nine : (AL, FL, GA, MS, NC, SC, TN,) Patty Perlaky Raccoon Mt. Caverns, TN Ph: 423 821 9403


Convention Is Fast Approaching Are You Ready For Missouri? Join Your NCA Family Still Not Too Late To Register! Educational & Entertaining the opening reception of Reggae & Rum Runners. AZOne is providing the entertainment in the amphitheater with some of the best Reggae to be found in the US. From the biggest vendor show to the final banquet, there is something for everyone. o miss this one!!!!! Steve Thompson Bridal Cave & Thunder Mountain Park Convention Breakout Sessions This is for everyone that is planning on attending the convention in October. We are having 4 breakout sessions. Three of which are sales oriented. The first one is "Selling Rocks in Your Shop" The three speakers are Stonecraft Farms, Village Originals and Pikes Peak. They will be across from the Electronic Committee breakout session on All Around the NCA website. The second set of breakout sessions will be a hard one to choose from. You have a choice of either, "Photos in your Cave" or "Advertising Your Cave". Photos in your Cave will be Chad with Fun Pictures Online and our very own Steve Thompson!! The Advertising Your Cave will have three speakers with Web Printing, Lamar Outdoors and Fantastic Caverns!! Just wanted to give you a heads up! If there are two of you attending the convention you might want to split up and go to all 4 breakout sessions. I really think all of them are going to be worth your time!! All Breakout sessions are on Tuesday Oct. 15th. The first two will be at 9:30 and th e second two will be at 10:50. Hope to see everyone there! Tour & Lunch at Jacob's Cave October 16


We Will Visit Two Great Caves Bridal Cave Centuries ago the Osage Native American Indians discovered the pristine beauty that lies beneath Thunder Mountain. Local folk lore tells of a legendary Native American Indian wedding ceremony held in the cave in the early 1800s. Today this magnificent natural wonderland is called Bridal Cave. In keeping with the tradition of the Native American legend, the Cave can be reserved for a romantic wedding chapel. Over 2,500 couples from around the world have exchanged vows in the stalac tite adorned Bridal Chapel. Chapel available by Reservation Word spread fast among the pioneering settlers of this wondrous cavern. After decades of primitive exploration, this astoundi ng natural treasure w as officially protected in 1948 for generations to come. Ongoing exploration of this massive cavern recently uncovered chambers of incomparable beauty including the crystal clear waters of Mystery Lake. Two years of painstaking development were needed to r eveal the once rumored passages. Now visitors can experience the intriguing marvel that only a handful have seen. Guided tours leave every few minutes and last approximately one hour. Tours are conducted over concrete pathways through the Cave's refreshi ng 60 degree environment. Park interpreters will lead you and your family through room after room of incredible mineral deposits. Giant columns, delicate soda straws and massive draperies abound throughout the cave. Millions of years of struggle between water and rock have created this cavern with more onyx formations than any other known cave or cavern. In fact thousands of school children each year explore Bridal Cave as part of their educational program A tour through Bridal Cave is a family adventure you will never forget. Jacob' s Cave Jacob's Cave was the first commercialized cave in the Lake of the Ozarks area and was opened for tourists in 1932. At that time wooden planks were used for walkways and kerosene lanterns for lights. The cave is famous for it's depth illusion, reflective pools, ceiling sponge work, prehistoric bones (mastodon, bear, peccary) and the world's largest geode. On the mile long cave tour you will see every type of cave formation imaginable, from millions of "soda straws" and massive stalactites and columns, to delicate helectites. Evidenc e of six ice ages and three earthquakes can be seen in the cave. The only walk through cave in Missouri that is completely accessible to persons with disabilities. Baby strollers and wheelch airs are available for those who need them. Evidence in the cave shows there were formations broken from the ceiling of the cave by truckloads during the second earthquake. The second ice age deposited two inches of clay on top of the broken formations. Jacob's Cave is almost older than history itself. It has been known to man for 120 years and has been available to be viewed by the public for 45 years. The Frank Hurley family have been custodian's of God's creation for 30 years. WIN $500 Did I hear someone ask how they could win $500 at this year's convention? Keep reading to find out. The 2013 Vendor Show is going to be great and one of the biggest we have ever had. We want to help you prepare for the Show and to make sure everyone stops in and visits the vendors from noon until 6PM on Monday October 14th. Ther e is also a great incentive this year to actually place orders during the Show. Every time you place an order with one of the vendors, your cave's name will have the chance to be in a draw ing during the Opening Reception. The winner will receive a $500.00 VISA Gift Card!! Yes, you read that correctly... a $500.00 VISA Gift Card. We want to help prepare you for your Vendor Show experience. You will find a list of vendors below, many are doing spec ials. Remember, the Show is only from 12 6 on Monday October 1 4th!! Claudia Yundt Convention Vendor Show Accelerando A.T. Storrs catalogs only Brush Art / John Whalen Sales Calico Cottage Inc. Driftstone Pueblo Fun Pictures Online Hogeye, Inc. 10% off on all re orders and new orders! Must be placed or completed by January 01, 2014. IGES catalogs onlyJoy Enterprises Fury K & M International $300 = Net 30 and Free Freight Allowance, $500 = Net 90 and Free Freight Allowance $1,500 = Net 90, Free Freight and a 5% discount Lake Printing Company Lamar Advertising Lipco GroupLW Bristol ClassicOceanic Linkways catalogs only Ohiopyle Print s (OPI) catalogs only Ouray Sportswear FREE freight on all orders placed during the show! Paykoc Imports Pikes Peak Rock Shop Offering a "special" for the Show Prairie Mountain Screen Printing Rocky Hop Safari Ltd. Squire Boone Village Wholesale Net 90 with a $1,200 order. One free plate charge, value up to $50. Digital Silver Village Originals 10% off total show purchase Ex cluding Village Mix tumble stones. Village Mix tumble stones $2.50 per pound and Free Freight with 500 pound minimum. Web Printing Connections Western Woods Wishpets


NCA Buyers Group Talk I believe that none of us is better than the rest of us but all of us is better than just one of us. When I realize I have already come up with all my best probably the greatest benefit to our cave and gi ft shop from being a part of the NCA. But most of my time, I have to remind myself just to listen to the silly glass shops and saw this colored glass diamond shaped paperweights in different colors and sizes. To me, those seem like something that would sit on the sitting there collec they were great sellers. It took me two years of ss diamonds sold out in no time and I was quickly ordering more! The next lesson came from grab bags. The stapled no one else would either. So another couple of ye ars of listening to others at the NCA cracker barrels about how this is a great way to mark down and sell excess merchandise. So I tried a dozen $1 and $5 bags, placing about $2 and $10 regular retail items in them. They sold out in no time at all. Now we make up 25 to 50 at a time! I never really considered myself a slow learner, but the list goes on. What do stone sea turtles have to do with a cave? Nothing, except they sell like crazy. Even on the ot her side of things, I figured the more name program items I had, the better chance I had to sell. I was warned, now necklaces. (Does anyone know an Alexis that would like 6 necklaces with her name on th em?) My latest lesson was in fudge. I have been holding off for about 5 years, not wanting to make a big investment in making fudge. I paid off the init ial investment in just a couple of months, ou r total gift shop sales are up. This may be because f amilies are staying in the gift shop a bit longer as they get their free sample of fudge. I have had a few moments of clarity. One of my best was at my first NCA cracker barrels at the Sevierville gift s how. Everyone was talking about how great this sour flavored powder in tubes sold. We went to that booth at the show the next day and made our purchase. Our Pucker Powder continues to be in the top ten of items sold. listening to the whole group will always pay off. Make sure you a ttend the NCA meetings and the cracker barrels. They will be filled with great information that will help your operation. Be glass diamonds. But more than that, I have come to appreciate the knowledge the collective group of NCA members have to offer. Disclaimer: "Whitney is not as hard headed as I am!" Teddy Jones Cumberland Caverns The Gift Shop at Cumberland Caverns, McMinnville, TN Teddy Jones showing off his colorful Diamonds Whitney Henry and her turtle friend s


Looks like several of our NCA buyers got to share their sales wisdom with the magazine!! Hugh Morrow with Ruby Falls, Michelle Devaney with Longhorn State Cavern Park, Tina Tibbets with Cosmic Caverns, Holly Sherbondy with Laurel Caverns and Justin Woodru ff with Sandy Creek Mining all got mentions in this months article!! Great job everyone!! WNS Report New Locations: NS The fungus was also found on 2 bats (some reports say 4 bats) in two Minnesota Sate Parks Mystery Cave State Park and Soudan Underground Mine State Park. Although it was found on the bats, it has not been found on the cave walls. P. destructans (see research below) has been found on a living bat and in soil samples from the UK. Because there have been n o deaths or WNS symptoms in the UK, scientists think they may be resistant to the fungus. Research: Scientists have identified the closest known non disease relatives of the WNS fungus. They hope to do genetic work on the fungi with the ultimate hope of being able find the genes responsible and to interrupt the disease causing ability of this fungus. Due to recent DNA studies, the USFS now says the fungus belongs in a different genus and should be named Pseudogymnoascus destructans. Patty Perlaky WNS Committee Chair Installing A Backyard Bat House Installing a backyard bat house is a great way to demonstrate your commitment to nature. And your bat tenants will pay you back with some wonderful benefits. Bats are essential for maintaining healthy ecosystems. Most bats eat huge amounts of insects, including farm pests and many of the nasty bugs that harass outdoor gatherings. You'll also enjoy learning more about bats as you watch them come and go from the home you provided. And homes are often in short supply for bats. Their populations are declining around the w orld, often because of disappearing habitat. Bat Conservation International can help by recommending certified bat houses, as well as the in depth information and plans in our Bat House Builders Handbook Community bat houses are designed to house entire bat colonies numbering in the thousands. The following Bat House Flyers provide building plans and advice for a successful project, more downloads are available on o ur Resources page. Click these Links Below For More Information Criteria For Suc cessful Bat Houses Tips Attracting Bats


International Union of Speleology (UIS) Dear Friends of Spelean History, Friedhart Knolle, President and Vice President of the History of Speleology Commission of the International Union of Speleology (UIS). The commission has been inactive for the past few years and prior to that focused on speleological history in Europe. Now a more international scope. art on the commi ssion. I believe most of you are members of the American Spelean History Association of the US National Speleological Society ). Working with the Commission does not mean you need to change anything you are doing, think anyone would object. It does mean that you would connect with people of similar interests internationally with the opportunity to share information and ideas, and conduct pro jects together if you want to. If you are interested, contact Bernard and Fr iedhart. They are copied on this message. My job is to help with introductions and assist the commissions as needed. If you know others who may be interested in the Commission, such as members for the Association, please forward this message to them. Geor ge Veni UIS Vice President of Administration National Cave and Karst Management Symposium (NCKMS) Management Symposium (NCKMS), which will be held in Carlsbad, New Mexico, USA, on 4 8 November 2013. This message is to remind you that the discounted price for registration ends on Tuesday, 3 September 2013. I encourage you register by that date to take advantage of the lower prices. This NCKMS includes the most diverse array of field trips and workshops ever, plus for the first time the proceedings will be ready for you when you arrive. For all of the details and to register visit Please share this message with anyone you think may be interested. National Cave and Karst Research Institute (NCKRI) The Pecos Valley Grotto and National Cave and Karst Research Institute (NCKRI) will be hosting the Fall 2013 Board of Governors meeting of the National Speleological Society (NSS) at NCKRI Headquarters, Carlsbad, New Mexico, on 9 November 2013. The meeting will immediately follow the National Cave and Kars t Management Symposium (NCKMS), which will follow the Board meeting of the Cave Research Foundation. A lot of things are happening in Carlsbad in early November! Advance registration for the NSS meeting is requested. You are welcome to register onsite bu t it will help tremendously in our planning if you pre register so we make sure to have enough, food, drink, and space for you. For the registration form and other details, go to t he NCKMS and other happenings. Important!!! During the past two years, oil and gas production has greatly increased in the Car lsbad area. Although two new major hotels have opened during that time and more are being built, 95 97% of all hotels rooms in Carlsbad are filling every day. The NSS registration eds, on floors, and in yards for camping is limited so register ASAP. If you plan to stay in a hotel, make your reservations as soon as possible. People who arrive in Carlsbad without reser vations often do not find rooms or pay very high prices. The regist ration form has hotel information to help you. Lastly, the registration form has information on caving trips, parties, a unique caver scavenger hunt, and other things to do in town. So come for NCKMS and stay a little longer for the NSS mee meet with the leaders of the NSS and give them your thoughts on what is going great with the NSS and what needs improvement. That is the reason the NSS Board meetings travel around the coun try. I know they look forward to meeting and hearing from you. I look forward to seeing you soon, George Veni Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute


Wisconsin Governor Signs Cave Proclamation Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker has officially signed a SHOW CAVE & CAVING MONTH Proclamation recognizing the month of August to recognize the efforts of the Wisconsin Speleological Society in its efforts to aid and develop the show cave indust ry. Th e Official Proclamation reads: WHEREAS; the Wisconsin Speleological Society, (WSS), a grotto of the National Speleological Society, is an organization dedicated to the exploration, study, and protection of caves, karst landforms, and landscapes thr oughout Wisconsin, and WHEREAS; the WSS has continually supported all caving in Wisconsin to help promote the understanding of cave resources, and WHEREAS; the WSS recognizes the economic, educational, and recreational benefits of the Show Cave industry and caves provide WHEREAS; the WSS has provided expertise and donated tens of thousands of documented volunteer hours in support of discovery, exploration, education, science management, search and rescue, conservation, and protection of caves and karst related like fea tures; and WHEREAS; the WSS is a principal contributor to an ever increasing body of knowledge and education about caves in Wisconsin; NOW, THEREFORE, I Scott Walker, Governor of the State of Wisconsin, do hereby proclaim August, 2013, as SHOW CAVE & CAVING MONTH Throughout the State of Wisconsin, and I commend this observance to all of our citizens. (signed) Scott Walker, Governor As an added footnote, many local Door County cavers have worked long and hard discovering, mapping, researching, and opening up caves for the enjoyment of the public. This includes the current ongoing efforts at hopefully developing and opening up a part of Horseshoe Bay Cave near Egg Harbor, as a rk. For more information on caves and the local efforts of cavers, go to their web si te at Also, two nice, local video presentations are on YouTube. Laddie Chapman taped Gary K. Soule of Sturgeon Bay as he gave a Another Finally, we have six currently operating show caves in Wisconsin, with Cave of the Mounds and Crystal Cave being the most famous. In the U.S. each year, over nine million people pay to go underground, and the income generated at just the top 142 show cave s exceeds 144 million dollars! The secondary financial impact on the local to urist economy is enormous. Education is a big part of cave tours. Our caving organization is trying to promote show caves in Wisconsin, as well as a possible new one in scenic and tourist rich Door county. The Governor supports us and the show cave ind ustry. He even issued a proclamation!!! I would like to point out that Jean and Blaze Cunningham, the now former owners of Crystal Cave along with other cavers and m yself were all present for the Proclamation presentation by State representative Paul Ti tl. Gary K. Soule Show Cave Archivist and Writer Friend of the NCA


e 1973 40 Years Ago! Howe Caverns in New York hosted the 1973 convention on site. Harrison Terk was Convention Chairman and NCA Secretary Treasurer. he took the above photograph and submitted it to the local newspaper. Today, 40 years later, The Times Journal is the hometown paper of the NCA office whi ch is currently located in Cobleskill, New York


BRING YOUR OLD PHOTOS TO CONVENTION!! The History Committee is planning a program at Convention. We hope to record some of you about times past. Put your thinking caps on! You may have a story to tell. All this is part of the planning for our 50th Anniversary in 2015. WE NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE! We want to have a vi deo for the big celebration and your old photographs from conventions past or photographs of the people who once represented your cave for inclusion in a commemorative book. We know there is "Stuff" out there... We just need you to bring it to us. Steve R awlings Bob Holt History Committee Mark Your Calendar! NCA Convention 2013 Host: Bridal Cave, Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri, October 13 18, 2013 National Cave and Karst Management Symposium (NCKMS) Carlsbad, New Mexico, November 4 8, 2013 IGES/SSS 2013, Sevierville & Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, November 5 9, 2013 IAAPA 2013, Orlando, Florida, November 18 22, 2013 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2014, Tucson, Arizona, February 1 16, 2014 NCA Mid Winter Board of Directors Meeting, Renaissance Airport Hotel, St. Louis, Missouri, March 3 5 2014 NSS Convention 2014, NSS Headquarters, Huntsville, Alabama, July 14 18, 2014 NCA Convention 2014, Host: Cave of the Winds, Colorado Springs, Colorado, September 22 26, 2014 International Show Caves Association Congress 2014, Jenolan Caves, New South Wales, Australia, November 2 8, 2014 IG ES/SSS 2014, Sevierville & Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, November 4 8, 2014 IAAPA 2014, Orlando, Florida, November 17 21, 2014 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2015, Tucson, Arizona, January 31 February 15, 2015 NSS Convention 2015, Waynesville Missouri August ? 2015 NCA Convention 2015, (50 th Anniversary) Host: Cave of the Mounds, Blue Mounds, Wisconsin, (Dates to be Determined) IGES/SSS 2015, Sevierville & Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, November 3 7, 2015 IAAPA 2015, Orlando, Florida, November 16 20, 2015 NSS Convention 2016, Ely, Nevada, July 17 23, 2016 Got News? Please make sure you let Bob Holt know when you have news to share with the membership regarding you and your cave It is the goal of the NCA office to produce more issues of Cave Talk and this can only happen when you help with the sharing of your news. Please send your articles, photographs to October 2013 Cave Talk Deadline Please have all articles to Bob Holt no later than September 15. Thank you!

Cave Talk is a
publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit
trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private
show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring
together show cave owners and operators from across the United
States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to
share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation
favorable to the show cave industry.


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