Cave Talk

Cave Talk

Material Information

Cave Talk
Series Title:
Cave Talk
George Veni ( suggested by )
National Cave Association
Publication Date:


Subjects / Keywords:
Resource Management ( local )
serial ( sobekcm )
United States


General Note:
Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring together show cave owners and operators from across the United States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave industry.
Open Access - Permission by Publisher
Original Version:
(August 2014)
General Note:
See Extended description for more information.

Record Information

Source Institution:
University of South Florida Library
Holding Location:
University of South Florida
Rights Management:
All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
K26-00906 ( USFLDC DOI )
k26.906 ( USFLDC Handle )
19422 ( karstportal - original NodeID )

USFLDC Membership

Added automatically
Karst Information Portal

Postcard Information



This item has the following downloads:

Full Text


Robert A. Holt PO Box 625, Cobleskill, NY 12043 E xecutive Director Phone: 573 836 2256 E mail: August 2014 Message From The President I hope this finds everyone well as we enter August and our summer season begins to wind down. Hopefully business has been good as we all look to finishing summer with a flourish. Congratulations to Cave of the Winds on the opening of their new high flying adrenalin pumping canyon aerial ride the Terror Dactyl. I've only seen the videos and heard the screams but it looks like it's going to be a big hit. For those of you who may not have tuned in to the Today Show on July 17, the Terror Dactyl and Cave of the Winds were featured in an adventure segment with Natalie Morales and Jenna Bush Hager (one of our former president's daughters). Kudos to Grant Carey, Steve Runkle and the entire Cave of the Winds staff! Speaking of Cave of the Winds, the convention registration form is now available online. You can either submit your r egistration electronically and mail in your check or you can print out the registration and mail it in with your check. It looks like Grant, Steve & Co., have a lot of fun and exciting activities planned for us in Colorado so please get your registration in as soon as you can. Remember early bird registrations submitted by August 16 will save you $100.00 off each registration fee. We're looking for a great turnout. Yes, convention registration is available online on your new NCA website. Finally, the w ait is over. After many long months of designing, testing, redesigning and retesting, etc., etc., the new website went online on July 15. It's still a work in progress so we'll be making changes as needed but we think you'll like the new look. One of t he things that you may notice is that the new website drives visitor traffic to your cave's website or your Google+ page. We did this so that visitors can go directly to your website for the most up to date information about your cave. For those of you w ho have not yet set up your Google+ page I encourage you all to do so as soon as possible. As we were testing the website I noticed that many of the Google+ pages were not yet set up but were getting a huge number of visits. For example, Cave of the Wind s had over 700,000 views when I last checked their Google+ page, Natural Bridge Caverns had over 1.8 million views and Luray Caverns had over 2.5 million views. I'm not suggesting that we'll all get that many people looking at our Google+ page but it's a free opportunity to advertise your cave and nowadays how often can we say we're getting something for free. If you'd like to see a good example of a member's Google+ page take a look at the Google+ page of Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park. They've done a fabulous job of informing viewers about what's going on at the cave and what they have to offer to visitors. It takes a bit of time to get things set up and upload some photos but it'll be time well spent, especially since it's FREE! So please take some time to take advantage of a free advertising opportunity to promote your cave. On a final note, t hanks to Jim Ingwersen, Bob Holt, Matt Doyle, Ed Mayfield, the Electronic Media/Technology Committee, and everyone else who contributed their time and effort to get the new website designed and online. Well done on this challenging project! Steve Rawlings President OFFICERS President : Steve Rawlings Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 209 728 2101 Vice President : Patty Perlaky Raccoon Mt. Caverns, TN Ph: 423 821 9403 Secretary Treasurer : Bob Holt Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 573 836 2256 Past President : Greg Beckler N atural Stone Bridge & Caves, NY Ph: 518 494 2283 et REGIONAL DIRECTORS Region One : (CT, DE, ME, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT) Rob Arey Polar Caves Park NH Ph: 603 536 1888 Region Two : (MD, VA, WV, KY) Rho Lansden Lost River Cave & Valley, KY Ph: 270 393 0077 Region Three : (IL, IN, MI, OH) Claudia Yundt Squire Boone Caverns, IN Ph: 812 732 4382 Region Four : (AR, IA, KS, MO, NE) Dennis Boyer War Eagle Cavern, AR Ph: 479 789 2909 Region Five : (MN, MT, ND, SD, WI) Tom Hagen Rushmore Cave, SD Ph: 60 5 255 4467 Region Six : (CA, ID, NV, OR, WA, AK, HI, Barbados, Bermuda) Matt Doyle Lake Shasta Caverns, CA Ph: 800 795 CAVE Region Seven : (AZ, CO, NM, UT, WY) Steve Beckley Glenwood Caverns, CO Ph: 970 945 4CAV Region Eight : (LA, OK, TX) Ed Mayfield Caverns of Sonora, TX Ph: 325 387 3105 Region Nine : (AL, FL, GA, MS, NC, SC, TN,) John Graves Luray Caverns, VA john.graves@luraycaverns. com Ph: 540 743 6551 Director s at Large Steve Runkle Cave of the Winds, CO Ph: 719 685 5444 Aaron Ginn Sierra Nevada Recreation, CA Ph: 209 736 2708


Cave of the Winds Offers New Aerial Dive Ride O f Epoch Proportions Terror Dactyl The first of its kind anywhere in the world, the ride sits on the edge of a 200 foot cliff above Williams Canyon in Manitou Springs, Colorado. Those brave enough to ride will be launched 150 feet into the canyon at nearly 100 miles per hour! The G forces on this ride will knock you silly and the free fall drop will have you laughing and praying for your life at the same time! TODAY SHOW 's Natalie Morales & Jenna Bush Hager Took The Plunge Over The Edge With Jenna Screaming "Mommy" All The Way! Watch TODAY SHOW Here Watch Natalie & Jenna Talk About Their Adventure Here Your Ride Awaits You At This Year's Convention!


My Phone Conversation With Garth Brooks The Mark Twain Cave Gift Shop ordered I have friends in low places" T shirts. When they came in I was the first to have one because Garth Brooks is one of my all time favorites. I dug down through the pile and pick up a second shirt only much larger of course. I was secretly hoping I could get it and a letter to him (and not a fan club office that he would never see) and I did! The shirt laid on my desk for several weeks and finally someone came into my office and ask me what I was going to do with that shirt and I told him. He said he kn ew his home address! Very skeptical, I sent it to the address. About 4 5 days he called the cave as my letter was written on letterhead stationery We had the best conversation at least 5 minutes and talked about a variety of things. He was home at th at time because his youngest daughter has just graduated from high school. So in a short thank you note I sent my cell phone number as he visits his brother who lives about 2.5 hours from here. I told him if he ever brought the family up to Mark Twain Ca ve I did not want to be at the bank or post office and miss him. You never know. So now I have my nerve up and sent a letter to Jay Leno. It has recently been announced that he has won the Mark Twain Prize for Humor and will be honored at the Kennedy Ce nter in Washington, DC. He will be speaking at a small college in St. Louis and I have invited him to come here to get a little background on Mark Twain. Again, you never know. Linda Coleberd Mark Twain Cave Headline: "Fungus Closes State Caves Until 2019" "Fungus closes state caves until 2019" -that was the headline in the regional newspaper distributed throughout half the state on July 1 (note the timing of the article, the beginning of one of the busiest weeks of the year). The phones st arted ringing, and haven't stopped since. But what about the people who did not bother to call, and just assumed the headline meant ALL caves in the state. The Fish and Game Commission made this decision the first of June, but waited to send out a pre ss release until tourist season really kicks in. We immediately contacted the local writer, who actually visited the cave and talked to both Dennis and Randy Langover (Cosmic Cavern). He did publish a follow up article on Monday, July 7. The headline read "Cave closures harm firms to stop fungus", with a subtitle "Show cave firms worried about bottom line". The article was written so poorly that even we were confused. The state's Parks and Tourism department promised an article would be produced and published as soon as possible. It is July 11, and still nothing from them. Three different families asked us at church this morning "So, I hear the state closed you down". The articles are online at search the archives on the date and headline. It is impossible to know how much damage this article caused us, but it is once again proof that the state is not our friend. I called the ,Ar kansas Parks and tourism, who the next day sent out a nice news release saying all show caves open, however none of the papers or TV stations felt good news was worth printing. I re called the Arkansas tourism today, they were going to try again to get the papers to put the open story in. Who knows ... only bad news sells. .. will keep you posted ..Even with all this we are still having a very good summer, but I am sure it could have been even better if it were not for the papers and Arkansas fish and game p utting out these stories. Dennis Boyer Your Friends at War Eagle Cavern On Beaver Lake


THE 49th ANNUAL CONVENTION September 29 October 3 2014 Colorado Springs, Colorado Register Online NOW ( NCA Website ) Convention 2014 Registration Here Deadline August 16 Book Your Room at t he Cheyenne Mountain Resort R oom R eservations Here Room Block Closes August 28! Or call them directly for reservations 1 800 588 0250 or 719 538 4000. And tell them you are with the 2014 National Caves Association convention See You In Colorado! Colorado Springs Video


You Are Invited To An Open Reception and Dinner Hosted By Keith & Pat Our Insurance Guys On Sunday September 28 Just Prior To The Convention Opening In 1992, the National Caves Association embarked on a journey to take control of its insurance destiny an d dollar. A conventional insurance program was established to control overall cost of risk through premium savings; and coverage and service enhanceme nts. In twenty one years, we have achieved our original goals. Many cave owners have experienced the many benefits the program has offered through the years. More importantly our entire membership has benefited from our efforts in the way the insurance marketplace views our risk, the competition that has been created and the way with which we each look at m aking our operations a safer environment for our guests and employees. The unfortunate part of our program history is the fact that along the way we have not been able to earn the trust and confid ence of all our members. And, without critical mass we ha ve not been able to explore alternative risk financing options. We know we have tried to accomplish this several times but market conditions and other issues prevented us from creating realistic alternatives. In th e course of our programs existence, we hav e accomplished most of our goals and made a lot of money for the insurance industry. Our program experience has been exceptional and we continue to generate loss ratios admired by other associations and the insurance commu nity. This being said, we know that our exposures have increased over the years and a disastrous loss can occur at any time. Our long history and premiums paid to date can definitely help in weathering the storm of a catastrophic claim. But, as we look ahead we know the time is right to explore alternative options and to start putting some of those premium dollars into our own coffers. Please join us as we rekindle discussions on this exciting opportunity. On Sunday, September 28 th at 5:00 P.M at the Fall convention Keith and Pat wil l be hosting a meeting made up of various industry speakers. This will be followed by a cocktail reception and dinner More details will follow but in the meantime keep a look out for a survey that will be sent to you. This survey will assist us in prepari ng for the meeting. Thank you in advance for your support of this important NCA project. NCA Insurance Committee Attend The ISCA Congress In Australia 7th ISCA Congress Australia 2014 Information Open Here Any NCA members planning to attend or interested in attending should contact Brad Wuest Brad will be coordinating with all the US caves attending. You may reach him at or call him at 210 651 6101. There will also be a brief 20 minute meeting for ISCA attendees at 4PM Thursday October 2 during the NCA Convention. The most recent newsletter and registration material is available in the above link.


Indiana Speleological Survey (ISS) Maps 7,000 Feet of Virgin Passage Indiana Speleological Survey (ISS) cavers mapped over 7,000 feet of virgin passage in the newly discovered McLain River borehole on Saturday July 12th. This pushed the surveyed length of the Binkley Cave system of which Indiana Caverns is a key part to 40. 61 miles in length. Currently 9th longest in the US, Binkley is now only a couple hundred feet from moving into 8th place on the long cave list. Cavers reported several large side passages that were not explored. Attached is a photo from one of the two lar ge rooms discovered on their survey. The little dots of light at the top left on the breakdown are two cavers. It appears that the longer term potential for the Binkley cave system could now be as much as 100 miles of cave. It appears the spring outlet f or the new section is five miles to west through an area of the sinkhole plain that currently has no mapped cave passages. I started mapping in Binkley back in 1967 and we may have spent 50 years working in what may turn out to be only a small part of the cave system. (Left) Dave Everton, current leader of the Binkley survey project, and John Benton, longtime ISS member with their awards at the National Speleological Society Awards banquet recently in Huntsville, Alabama. Dave was awarded the Lew Bicking award for lifetime achievement in cave exploration and survey. John received the Peter Hauer award for Spelean History for his contributions to cave exploration history in the US. Gary Roberson Indiana Caverns The 2015 NSS American Caving Calendar Now Available for Wholesale Orders The nonprofit National Speleological Society has produced its first ever cave calendar for the year 2015. This is a 12x9 inch traditional 12 month wall calendar offset printed on glossy stock with a full size photo abov e a large writeable calendar space beneath. All photos are from caves in the USA and include one from N CA member Mercer Caverns. Our goal is to feature at least one NCA Cavern each year in the calendar. We are hoping NCA members will be interested in sell ing this in their gift shops. In consideration of the seasonal nature of many cave's visitation, the calendar has been produced for early season availability (next year's should be out a few weeks earlier). Wholesale pricing will be set at $7.20 per copy f or orders over 6; this is based on a suggested retail price of $12. No pricing is printed on the calendar, leaving buyer free to set their own. All calendars will be provided shrink wrapped with a stiff cardboard insert in the center so that the front and back are both visible. If interested please contact Michelle Vaughn at the NSS Bookstore, or (256) 852 1300. To view a PDF version before ordering, visi t: Under E arth 2015 Calendar


News To Share We extend our deep est sympathy to Gary Roberson (Laura) & Carol Roberson Groves and their families on the recent passing of their mother Agnes Louise "Aggie" Roberson. Con gratulations to Mark Twain Cave... Gretchen Shaw reports they received a TripAdvisor Excellence Award for 2014 They are so proud of their staff because they are the ones who made the award possible. Steve Thompson reports sample ... Souvenirs, Gifts & Novelties magazine is doing a story on our Rock Shop We have hosted over 30 travel writers this yea r. We have been picked by Glamour Magazine in Top 10 Unique Wedding Venues Celebrate the Ozarks on KY 3 Regional TV PBS filmed Family Travel with Colleen Kelly to air Spring of 2015 Pittsburg Post Gazette Midwest Living has done a story and filmed at Bridal Missouri Tourism photographed the cave for the 2015 Missouri Travel Guide an a rticle in the Dallas Morning News and a feature article in LO Profile a regional publication Congratulations to Rob and Kristine Arey of Polar Caves who are first time parents of a little girl Clara Arey joined her parents on July 26 weighing in at 3lbs 7oz. Both mom and baby Clara are doing well. Secret Caverns Caters To The Asian Market RJ Mallery, (right) owner of Secret Caverns has seen an influx of motorcoach business arriving at his upstate New York cave in the past year and a half. The visitors are primarily Asian and come out of New York City bringing anywhere from 1 3 buses some days several days a week RJ normally closes his cave for the winter, however this past year he installed a pellet stove and is able to continue to receive motorcoach guests by appointment during those cold winter days. The tour group advertises his cave packaged with an overnight to Niagara Falls. RJ has been very pleased with the additional business so much that he had shirts made with Secret Caverns printed in Mandarin Chinese. They immediately flew off the racks in the gift shop and he had to get more made up quickly He has both adult and child sizes available. Since RJ does not have food service, the Asian group leader encouraged him to buy a hot dog cart saying it would pay for itself in two days. RJ took his suggestion bought one and it did pay for it self in a day and a half! Great idea from RJ for those who have a niche market


NCA Insurance Column insurance information, news, education and industry hilarity! Too Tired? Being overly tired can make it difficult to concentrate, increasing the possibility of error or job related injury. Investigations have identified fatigue as a probable cause of accidents in different modes of transportation. For example, the National T ransportation Safety Board has cited fatigue as a probable cause in the Exxon Valdez and World Prodigy marine accidents and in the crash of a DC 8 aircraft in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Fatigue has also been cited in the nuclear accidents at Three Mile Island and Bhopal and in the decision making process of the Space Shuttle Challenger accident. B ASIC H UMAN P HYSIOLOGY How much sleep does an individual need? Basically, an individual requires the amount of sleep necessary to achieve full alertness and an effortless level of functioning during waking hours. Individual sleep needs vary, although most adults req uire about 8 hours of sleep. Some people need 6 hours, but others require 10 hours to feel wide awake and to function at their peak level during wakefulness. Estimates show that in the United States to day, many adults obtain 1 to 1.5 hours less sleep per night than they actually need. F ATIGUE C OUNTERMEASURES : P ERSONAL S TRATEGIES Fatigue countermeasures can be divided into two categories: Preventive strategies: those used before work and during rest periods aimed at minimizing the physiological causes of fatigue and operational countermeasures On the job measures: those used to provide temporary relief from the symptoms of fatigue Preventive Strategie s Minimizing Sleep Loss. The effective use of days off and rest periods to catch up on sleep is critical. Since the effects of sleep loss are cumulative, it is important not to begin a new work schedule with an existing sleep debt. Naps. Naps can acutely improve alertness, even when people do not report feeling well rested on awakening. However naps should b e limited to a maximum of 45 minutes to prevent the chances of entering deep sleep. Good Sleep Habits & Environment. This may include such things as checking the security of the sleeping environment or reading something relaxing and entertaining (but not work related). Physical aspects of the environment can also affect sleep. A dark, quiet, comfortable and cool room is preferable. Effects of Food, Alcohol, and Exercise. The discomfort associated with being hungry or with having eaten too much, may inte rfere with falling asleep. In general, evidence for effects of common dietary constituents on sleep is not yet conclusive, although alc ohol, nicotine and caffeine have well documented disruptive effects. Also, it is advisable to avoid strenuous exercise within six hours of going to bed. Operational Countermeasures Once the individual is on the job, the range of available strategies to combat fatigue is more restricted. Social Interaction and Physical Activity. Engaging in conversation can be a useful operational strategy. Experiments have shown that physical activity (such as stretching, isometric exercises or even writing or chewing gum) is one of the most effective ways of combating sleepiness. The alertin g effects of caffeine, although they are disruptive to sleep, can be used strategically when it is necessary to stay awake. Strategic caffeine use includes avoiding it when already alert such as at the beginning of a daytime work period or just afte r a na p, for example. In summary, sleep time needs to be given priority and kept as free as possible from other commitments and activities. Acknow ledging


and managing these physiological challenges can promote performance, productivity and safety in the workp lace. Ignoring these factors can lead to decrements in human capability and to an increased potential for incidents and accidents, which can in tu rn result in tremendous societal and individual costs. I got it from the Inter A jury awarded $178,000 in damages to a woman who sued her former fianc for breaking their seven week engagement. The breakdown: $93,000 for pain & suffering; $60,000 for loss of income from her legal practice, and $25,000 for psy chiatric counseling expenses. Contact Us: If you have any comments, questions or suggestions for the NCA Insurance Column, please contact haginn@caverntours. Heather Ginn Insurance Committee haginn@caverntours. com "Spelunker" vs "Caver" Hi, Everyone! A while back I had in my WSS cave historical column on how things have changed in the 50 years of caving. Yes, from candles and matches to flashlights, to carbide lights, to electric lights with bulky backpacks, to modern LED lights, it is co nstantly changing. Well, I could not help but scan this part of a magazine article regarding the use of the term "Spelunker," and "Caver." I know you all know the difference by now. I can always tell if a reporter or anyone has done their homework, o r not, depending if they use the term spelunker. If you do not know the accepted difference, you must still be a caveman in the stone age...ha, ha!! Originally, we were all cavemen in the stone age. Then as commercial caves were developed and others we re explored, we were spelunkers. Now commercial caves are all officially called show caves, as officially declared and recognized by the International Union o f Speleology. The communist countries during the Cold War objected to the term commercial, so this is how this more acceptable term came into usage. Now, the Latin term spelunker is definitely frowned upon by almost everyone, and we are cavers. I wonder if 50 years from now we will all be cave ecologists, or something else? About the only t hing I know for sure is that change is always taking place. Have a good summer, cavers! Gary K. Soule Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin


From Deep Down in the Archives... Timeline 19 9 9 Photographs Anyone? Our supply of old photographs is getting low... I need your help. Please look through your archives for NCA related photographs we can use in Cave Talk and ultimately feature in the NCA's 50th Anniversary Celebration. The big event is only a year away! Contact Bob if you have something to share. Bob Hol t Steve Rawlings History Committee We all know that one of these guys is the real Bermudan That's the guy on the right, David Summers. The guy on the left hailed from Ohio Caverns and that would be the one and only Max Evans. Bermuda Convention 1999. Dates to Remember Mark Your Calendar! NCKRI International Conference Subter r anean Biology Juriquilla, Quertaro, Mxico August 31 September 5, 2014 NCA Convention 2014, Host: Cave of the Winds, Colorado Springs, Colorado, September 29 October 3, 2014 International Show Caves Association Congress 2014, Jenolan Caves, New South Wales, Australia, November 2 8, 2014 IGES/SSS 2014, Sevierville, Tennessee, November 2 6, 2014 & Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, November 3 7, 2014 IAAPA 2014, Orlando, Florida, November 17 21, 2014 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2015, Tucson, Arizona, January 31 February 15, 2015 NCA Mid Winter Board of Directors Meeting, Renaissance Airport Hotel, St. Louis, Missouri, March 2 4 201 5 NSS Convention 2015, Waynesville Missouri July 13 17, 2015 NCA Convention 2015, (50 th Anniversary) Host: Cave of the Mounds, Blue Mounds, Wisconsin, September 21 25, 2015 NCKRI The Sinkhole Conference, Rochester, Minnesota, October 5 9, 2015 IGES/SSS 2015, Sevierville, Tennessee, November 1 5, 2014 & Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, November 2 6, 2014 IAAPA 2015, Orlando, Florida, November 16 20, 2015 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2016, Tucson, Arizona, January 30 February 14, 2015 NCA Mid Winter Board of Di rectors Meeting, Renaissance Airport Hotel, St. Louis, Missouri, February 22 24 201 6 NSS Convention 2016, Ely, Nevada, July 17 23, 2016 NCA Convention 2016, Host: Squire Boone Caverns, French Lick, Indiana, September 19 23, 2016 IAAPA 2016, Orlando, Florida, November 8 11, 2016 Got News? Please make sure you let Bob Holt know when you have news to share with the membership regarding you and your cave It is the goal of the NCA office to produce more issues of Cave Talk and this can only happen when you help with the sharing of your news. Please send your articles, photographs to September 2014 Cave Talk Deadline Please have all articles to Bob Holt no later than August 15. Thank you!

Cave Talk is a
publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit
trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private
show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring
together show cave owners and operators from across the United
States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to
share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation
favorable to the show cave industry.


Download Options

Choose Size
Choose file type
Cite this item close


Cras ut cursus ante, a fringilla nunc. Mauris lorem nunc, cursus sit amet enim ac, vehicula vestibulum mi. Mauris viverra nisl vel enim faucibus porta. Praesent sit amet ornare diam, non finibus nulla.


Cras efficitur magna et sapien varius, luctus ullamcorper dolor convallis. Orci varius natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Fusce sit amet justo ut erat laoreet congue sed a ante.


Phasellus ornare in augue eu imperdiet. Donec malesuada sapien ante, at vehicula orci tempor molestie. Proin vitae urna elit. Pellentesque vitae nisi et diam euismod malesuada aliquet non erat.


Nunc fringilla dolor ut dictum placerat. Proin ac neque rutrum, consectetur ligula id, laoreet ligula. Nulla lorem massa, consectetur vitae consequat in, lobortis at dolor. Nunc sed leo odio.