Cave Talk

Cave Talk

Material Information

Cave Talk
Series Title:
Cave Talk
George Veni ( suggested by )
National Cave Association
Publication Date:


Subjects / Keywords:
Resource Management ( local )
serial ( sobekcm )
United States


General Note:
Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring together show cave owners and operators from across the United States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave industry.
Open Access - Permission by Publisher
Original Version:
(January 2015)
General Note:
See Extended description for more information.

Record Information

Source Institution:
University of South Florida Library
Holding Location:
University of South Florida
Rights Management:
All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
K26-00911 ( USFLDC DOI )
k26.911 ( USFLDC Handle )
20832 ( karstportal - original NodeID )

USFLDC Membership

Added automatically
Karst Information Portal

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Robert A. Holt PO Box 625, Cobleskill, NY 12043 E xecutive Director Phone: 5 18 231 5420 E mail: 1965 Celebrating Our 50th Year 2015 January 2015 Message From The Executive Director Happy New Year! I trust you all had a wonderful Holiday Season and yo u are now ready to embark on a new y ear filled with fun and excitement at your cave. This year marks our 50th Anniversary of the NCA. I hope you will plan to attend our annual convention in Wisconsin where our hosts, Ann Wescott and Joe Klimczak and their staff at Cave of the Mounds are excited about the NCA's 50th Gala Celebration. Please plan to attend. Mark your calendars now for September 21 25. This winter we will be working on a redesign of our brochure /directory. Look for a total revamp as to what you have been accustom to. By the way, if you are in need of our current brochures, please let me know and I will be happy to get you a supply. We would like to use them up before the new ones are printed. We will be busy getting our Federal and State caves back into membership. A couple of our board members have already contacted the ones in their region and they are overwhelming happy to get back into the NCA family. In this issue read the concern our friends in Missouri are having regarding the possibility of traffic generator signs being removed Your help is very much needed. And... Just a reminder that the NCA Office has a new phone number which is listed below. Please make sure you have changed it in your contact list. Here's to a very successful New Year! Bob Holt Executive Director NEW NCA OFFICE PHONE NUMBER We now have a New York Number! 518 231 5420 OFFICERS President : Steve Rawlings Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 209 728 2101 Vice President : Patty Perlaky Raccoon Mt. Caverns, TN Ph: 423 821 9403 Secretary Treasurer : Bob Holt Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 518 231 5420 Past President : Greg Beckler N atural Stone Bridge & Caves, NY Ph: 518 494 2283 et REGIONAL DIRECTORS Region One : (CT, DE, ME, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT) Rob Arey Polar Caves Park NH Ph: 603 536 1888 Region Two : (MD, VA, WV, KY) John Graves Luray Caverns, VA john.graves@luraycaverns. com Ph: 540 743 6551 Region Three : (IL, IN, MI, OH) Claudia Yundt Squire Boone Caverns, IN Ph: 812 732 4382 Region Four : (AR, IA, KS, MO, NE) Dennis Boyer War Eagle Cavern, AR Ph: 479 789 2909 Region Five : (MN, MT, ND, SD, WI) Tom Hagen Rushmore Cave, SD Ph: 60 5 255 4467 Region Six : (CA, ID, NV, OR, WA, AK, HI, Barbados, Bermuda) Matt Doyle Lake Shasta Caverns, CA Ph: 800 795 CAVE Region Seven : (AZ, CO, NM, UT, WY) Steve Beckley Glenwood Caverns, CO Ph: 970 945 4CAV Region Eight : (LA, OK, TX) Ed Mayfield Caverns of Sonora, TX Ph: 325 387 3105 Region Nine : (AL, FL, GA, MS, NC, SC, TN ) Tim Lacy DeSoto Caverns Park AL Ph: 256 378 7252 Director s at Large Steve Runkle Cave of the Winds, CO Ph: 719 685 5444 Aaron Ginn Sierra Nevada Recreation, CA a sginn Ph: 209 736 2708


Son Doong Cave In Vietnam Is World's Largest Cave Discovered in 2009 Son Doong cave (Vietnamese: Hang Son Doong ) is world's largest cave, located in Quang Binh province, Vietnam. It was found by a local man named Ho Khanh in 1991 and was recently discovered in 2009 by British cavers, led by Howard Limbert. The name "Son Doong" cave means "mountain river cave", It was created 2 5 million years ago by river water eroding away the limestone underneath the mountain Where the limestone was weak, the ceiling collapsed creating huge skylights Saudi Arabia Crown Prince discovers Son Doong Cave : In the afternoon February 11, 2014 A party for the Crown Prince of the largest cave Son Doong also was the first person to enter this cave in 2014. According to the organizers, despite being an important person of the United Arab Emirates, Crown Prince Sheikh bin Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan has taken the dangerous adventure tour to discover Son Do ong cave and follow strict regulations of this tour. It's so big you could fit a 40 stor y skyscraper inside, but Son Doong cave remained undiscovered until a Ho Khanh found it. Even then, no one explored beyond its vast entrance until British cavers visited in 2009. Inside the cave is a huge river but the source of it remains unknown. A team from the British Cave Research Association who first explored Son Doong, return ed to try and shed more light on the cave's ma ny mysteries Thousands of "cave pearls" sit untouched in Son Doong. These natural phenomenon are formed over hundreds of years when dripping water creates layers of calcite that build up around grains of sand.


The roof of the cave collapsed centuries ago, allowing a lush jungle to take root. Monkeys and flying foxes live in what explorers named the Garden of Edam Can't shell out $3,000 for a tour? Take this virtual journey into Son Doong's forests! Click on to view this magnificent cave. Photos by John Spies and Carsten Peters/Getty Images R ead T he L atest ISCA N ewsletter :


Christmas Celebrated Above & Below Ground Some of the sights of the Holiday Season found on Facebook Cumberland Caverns TN Natural Bridge Caverns, TX Shenandoah Caverns, VA Lost River Cave & Valley, KY Glenwood Caverns and Adventure Park, CO


Insurance Column information, news, education and industry hilarity! Defibrillator Use in the Workplace & How It Affects Insurance This month's article was based on a posting from the NCA Facebook page by Lake Shasta Caverns. Thanks Matt! :) Automated External Defibrillators, or AEDs, deliver an electronic charge to restart the heart. The American Heart Association recommends installing AEDs wherever people are likely to congregate, such as shopping malls and schools. This could also include workplaces. But some companies worry about their liability should a defibrillator fail to save a heart attack victim. They worry that installing a defibrillator could actually increase their insurance rates. Federal regulations do not require the installation or use of defibrillators in the workplace, but an OSHA best pra ctices guide lists AEDs as one component of a workplace first aid program. Defibrillator Use Defibrillators are considered automatic because you need no special training to use one. When you open the defibrillator, an electronic voice instructs you in th e equipment's use. You follow the instructions for placing the pads on the victim's chest, and press a button when told to do so; the machine does the rest. AED's cannot save every person, but the Occupational Safety and Health Administration reports that using a defibrillator within three to five minutes of a heart attack can increase the person's chance of survival by 60 percent. Liability All 50 states have good Samaritan laws which protect individuals, emergency first responders and sometimes medical p ersonnel from being sued for a good faith effort to render assistance to another person. Some of these laws, such as that in Massachusetts, specifically address the use of defibrillators and protect anyone using such a device from liability. A May 2003 art icle in "The Fabricator" noted that at that time, no lawsuits had been filed against anyone for the use of a defibrillator, though several cases have gone to court alleging liability because a company did not provide a defibrillator. As AEDs become less ex pensive and more widely available, not having them may hold more potential for a lawsuit than having one. Insurance Your general liability insurance policy should protect you and your employees from any lawsuits arising from the use of defibrillators. Car dioReady, one supplier of AEDs, reports that it does not know of any insurance companies that offer discounts specifically for AEDs, but that this might be a negotiating point. An insurance company shouldn't increase your premiums because you make an AED a vailable for your employees and customers. Precautions Though AEDs are supposed to be "automatic," the American Heart Association recommends that you train your employees in their use. Training includes information on how to recognize a heart attack, the importance of summoning help before you begin using the AED, and training on CPR and rescue breathing, in case the AED doesn't work. Employees should know the location of AEDs and get to practice open the machine and turning it on. You should notify your l ocal emergency services that you have an AED, and you should maintain the equipment following the manufacturer's recommendations. Mark Your Calendars! Webinars All at 11:00 A.M. Central Time January 20th March 11th Not My Claim Techniques in Risk Transfer


A woman sued a bowling alley claiming she slipped and fell on an icy pothole which resulted in a disc herniation. She claimed no previous back probl ems, but her medical records showed numerous lower back problems over the past 10 years, and she was diagnosed with lumbar radiculitis the previous year. Bowling alley league records proved that she completed the remaining 14 WEEKS of the season after the alleged fall. In addition, a meteorologist testified that weather conditions for that day could not have formed ice. A jury determined that the bowling alley was not at fault. Contact Us: If you have any comments, questions or suggestions for the NCA Insurance Column, please contact me at Heather Ginn Insurance Committee 23rd International Karstological School "Classical Karst" Caves Exploration and Studies combined with the 50th Anniversary of the International Union of Speleology UIS Postojna, Slovenia June 15 th to 20 th 2015 Next year the International Union of Speleology (UIS) celebrates its 50 th Anniversary and you are invited to the celebration! The celebration will held with the 23 rd International Karstological School, a series of state of the art lectures and field trips conducted annually by the Karst Research Institute in Postojna, Slovenia. exploration on cave and karst research. To register for the celebration and/or the school, and for more information, see the attached file. visit a spectacular area. Contact the people listed in the attached file for more details, and please share this message with anyone who may be interested. George Veni Vice Presiden t of Administration International Union of Speleology Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute


MoDot Proposed Rule Change Threatens The Future Of Signage For Missouri Cave s Missouri Department of Transportation ( MoDot ) has proposed to eliminate all major traffic generator signs in the state (see picture ). Removing these signs has the potential to impact attendance to the point Bridal Cave would no longer be a viable attraction at Lake of the Ozarks The Highway Beautification Act of 1968 placed traffic generator signs were permitted by the to replace the loss of directional signs for natural wonders an d historic sites. When the expressway was proposed to go around Camdenton, Bridal Cave spent four years completing the MoDot application process paying all required fees associated with the installation and maintenance eral points support our concern with this proposed rule change: Being a natural attraction puts Bridal Cave at a distinct disadvantage as this business is unable to relocate closer to the traffic as with almost any other business. Giving directions to the turn off is the number one question asked by visitors The traveling public is conditioned to look for these signs for natural wonders as there are thousands of these signs in Missouri and surrounding states. On the new Camdenton expressway there are no lo cations where a turn off sign could be located as the highway was designed with a 25 foot barrier of trees eliminating any possibility of new signs When the new Camdenton expressway was opened, MoDot was 90 days late installing these traffic generator sign s. During that time, attendance was down by 50%. operating. The majority of these closed caves failed due to highway relocation and inadequa te signage. Modot has stated that the blue logo signs are available. These blue logo signs are for national companies with a well recognized logo. Regional or local logos are not as easily identifiable. You have to look no further than the west end of Osag e Beach Parkway to see the devastating effects. Local businesses are failing or moving while the national chains continue to survive. Furthermore the size of the logo signs compared to the traffic generator signs is a reduction of over 75% in size and the cost is more than double. Modot has repeatedly complained of lack of funding. Yet they are proposing to cancel this sign program losing this current and future funding source. State Parks, State owned caves and even prisons will be allowed to keep their s igns creating a distinct disadvantage to privately owned natural attractions. Public input is being requested. You may send your comments to: Pam Harlan, Secretary to the Commission, P.O. Box 270, Jefferson City, MO 65102, from December 15, 2014 through J anuary 15, 2015 If Missouri is successful in the removal of these signs, you know it will only be a matter of time and YOUR state may be next. Your help is needed NOW please! Thanks F or Y our H elp.... It I s Very Much Appreciated! Steve Thompson Bridal Cave


WNS Report New Regulations in Wisconsin Property owners in Wisconsin who want bats removed from their homes have new regulations to follow. They must install one way exits and maintain them for a week, allowing bats to leave but not re enter. Homeowners are prohibited from doing anything from June to mid August, when mothers are taking care of their young Research Researchers at Bucknell University conducted a captive study of 147 little brown myotis to investigate variables influencing WNS mortality. Among their findings in this study: Prehibernation body condition significantly influences mortality. There is a negative linear effect between mortality and initia l body condition. Mortality for males was greater than females Mortality was greater for bats hibernating at 10 degrees C than at 4 degrees C Torpor duration is a factor there is longer torpor at 4 degrees C Th e level of Pd exposure is a factor bats inoculated with the lowest dose of Pd had the highest Mortality rates and the shortest torpor, possibly because spread is more rapid with less density (Density dependent growth has been documented in many fungal s pecies with germination inversely related to the density). Patty Perlaky WNS Committee Chair NCA Webinar "What To Do When There's A Boo Boo," January 20, 2015, 1PM Central Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2015, Tucson, Arizona, January 31 February 15, 2015 NCA Mid Winter Board of Directors Meeting, Renaissance Airport Hotel, St. Louis, Missouri, March 2 4, 2015 NCA Webinar "Not My Claim Techniques In Risk Transfer ," March 11, 2015, 1PM Central 23rd International Karstological School & 50th Anniv ersary International Union of Speleology (UIS), Postojna, Slovenia, June 15 20, 2015 NSS Convention 2015, Waynesville, Missouri July 13 17, 2015 NCA Convention 2015, (50 th Anniversary) Host: Cave of the Mounds, Blue Mounds, Wisconsin, September 21 25, 2015 NCKRI The Sinkhole Conference, Rochester, Minnesota, October 5 9, 2015 IGES/SSS 2015, Sevierville, Tennessee, November 1 5, 2014 & Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, November 2 6, 2014 IAAPA 2015, Orlando, Florida, November 16 20, 2015 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2016, Tucson, Arizona, January 30 February 14, 2015 NCA Mid Winter Board of Directors Meeting, Renaissance Airport Hotel, St. Louis, Missouri, February 22 24, 2016 NSS Convention 2016, Ely, Nevada, July 17 23, 2016 NCA Convention 2 016, Host: Squire Boone Caverns, French Lick, Indiana, September 19 23, 2016 IAAPA 2016, Orlando, Florida, November 8 11, 2016 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2017, Tucson, Arizona, January 28 February 12, 2017 NCA Convention 2017, Host: Mark Twain Cav e, Hannibal, Missouri (Dates TBD ) IAAPA 2017, Orlando, Florida, November 14 17, 2017 Got News? Please make sure you let Bob Holt know when you have news to share with the membership regarding you and your cave. It is the goal of the NCA office to produce more issues of Cave Talk and this can only happen when you help with the sharing of your news. P lease send your articles, photographs to February 2015 Cave Talk Deadline Please have all articles to Bob Holt no later than January 15. Thank you

Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves
Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965
by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial
members sought to bring together show cave owners and
operators from across the United States to promote the show
cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas,
and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave


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