Cave Talk

Cave Talk

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Cave Talk
Series Title:
Cave Talk
Bob Holt ( suggested by )
National Cave Association
Publication Date:


Subjects / Keywords:
Resource Management ( local )
serial ( sobekcm )
United States


General Note:
Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring together show cave owners and operators from across the United States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave industry.
Open Access - Permission by Publisher
Original Version:
(February 27, 1993)
General Note:
See Extended description for more information.

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University of South Florida Library
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University of South Florida
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All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
K26-00972 ( USFLDC DOI )
k26.972 ( USFLDC Handle )
20907 ( karstportal - original NodeID )

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NCA Cave Talk NATIONAL CAVES ASSOCIATION February 27, 1993 BARBARA MUNSON, Coordinator Route 9, Box 106 McMinnville, TN )7110 (615) 668-3925 STAYING IN TOUCH /Ionthly /Iailings have brought you various articles, reports, and information about the NCA in this NCA CAVE TALK, and the next, Hill bring you up to date on Hhat our NCA members are doing. NEW NCA MEMBER We are pleased to Helcome IITSTERY CAVE, Forestville State Park, Rt. 2, Box 128, Preston, /Iinnesota 55965, as a Category A IICA member. lIark Hhite is the Park /Ianager and ~Iarren Netherton, the Cave Specialist. THO separate entrances are used for tours. As mentioned in the application announcement, the historic entrance tour has recently been renovated. The other entrance (/Iinnesota Caverns entrance) is nOH used for "rustic" tours on summer Heekends hand held florescent lanterns give visitors the feel of discovery. HONORS ... Edna Perez, RIO CNlUY CAVE, Has named Public Relations Person of 1992 by the Puerto Rico Hotel Association. This award Has presented to Edna during a special luncheon at the Caribe Hilton during the PRHA Convention . .. A Department of the Interior /Ieri torious Services AHard I.las presented to CARLSBAD CAVERN'S Bob Crisman on December 18, 1992. The al.lard Has in recogni tion of Crisman's service in park and cave management during his 35 years with the NPS. DISCOVERY Exploration by Randy Langhover, OHner and manager of COStlIC CAVERNS in Arkansas, and others, has led to the discovery of over 1,000 feet of formation packed virgin cave and tHO underground lakes. At present he has no plans to develop this area, but he does plan to prepare a videotape. Area media coverage of this discovery has been good. ANNOUNCE/lENT AND CALL FOR PAPERS NCAINSS Liaison Chairman Gordon Smith has asked us to include a call for papers with the announcement of the National Cave lIanagement Symposium October 27-30, 1993 in Carlsbad, /leH Jlexico. The theme for the Symposium Hill be "Cave Jlanagement Into the THenty-First Century". The goal of the symposium is to introduce neH and varies ideas to cave managers to help them in managing their caves for the future. Papers, to be included in the proceedings available at the time of the symposium, should be submitted in final form by July 31. 1993. They may be sent to Dale Pate, Carlsbad Caverns NP, 3225 National Parks Jjl/y, Carlsbad, In! 88220, Ph 505-785-2104, or to Jim Goodner, Bureau of Land lIanagement, Ph. 505-887-6544, or to Richard Carlson\Ransom Turner, US Forest Service, Ph. 505-885-4181. INSURANCE Your NCA Insurance Steering Committee Hill be meeting lIarch 4th. The \'/inter 1993 CAVE WATCH, the Risk llanagement Bulletin of the /lCA Insurance Program, produced by Arthur J. Gallagher & Co., is included Hith this mailing to each of our NCA member caves. Tenth Anniversary National Tourism Week May 2-8, 1993


NICE ro /fIN ONE F'ANTASTIC CAVERNS' recently completed motorcoach marketing video seems to be working .. 1993 bookings have tripled as compared to the same period in '92. The video's timing. rvas good ... Branson rvas 1992's most popular motorcoach destination. Just over 1, 000 bus groups visi ted the cave this past year. SPEllKING OF vmEOS FANTASTIC CAVERNS is also producing a 4 minute tape featuring the cave's history. Plans are to use the program in the lobby of the Visitor Center for '93. 1994 will see the history video moved to a second (smaller) tiJeater in the cave. IF YOU'RE STILL IN DOUBT About science and conservation ... consider that field trips to FANTASTIC CAVERNS have grown nearly 50% (7,200 in '92). The increase has been brought about by tileir student nefYspaper ... OZARK ADVENTURE. IF YOU'RE STILL INTERESTED At the NCA Convention several of you expressed intel-est in the trailers at FANTASTIC CAVERNS. The nefY replacements are on order. If any of you are still interested, give Russ a call. CATEGORY CHANGES 11hen paying 1993 NCA dues, BEAUTIFUL RUSflllORE CAVE moved !!£ to Category C, and CAVERNS OR SONORA moved !!£ to Category B. ARE WE PROVIDING WHAT TIlEY WANT? A recent survey by the National Tour Association of tour travelers indicated tour patrons are looking for a learning experience in a fun environment. The survey also found tour travelers of different ages required different product and marketing strategy. PROPOSED GAS TAX INCREASE The American Automobile Association and the Travel and Tourism Government Affairs Council have both released statements opposing the proposed gas tax increases AAA's Senior Vice-President of Public and Government Relations Darryl Wayland saying "Trying to balance the budget at the gas pump would hurt the economy and it will incur the wrath of consumers." The Travel and Tourism Council commends President Clinton's comprehensive proposal to stimulate the economy but states grave concerns about the tax proposals because of their disproportionate impact on travel and tourism. HISTORICAL AND REFERENCE RECOIRtENDATION Archivist Gary Soule recommends, for both historical and reference reasons, putting a small notation giving the year on all brochures. If more than one brochure is put aut in any given year, then the month and year should be given. This is also useful if a customer questions a rate or attraction change. He says some caves such as LURAY and CAVE OF TilE HOUNDS are already doing this. HARKETING POSITION The University of Texas at San Antonio is recruiting for an Assistant Professor with primary teaching responsibilities in Tourism Harketing and Tourism Harketing Research. An appropriate doctoral degree is required. The position will be available Sept. 1, 1993, closing date is Harch 15, 1993. Apply to: Dr. Victor L. Heller, Coordinator, Tourism Hanagement Program, College of Business, The University of Texas at San Antonio, 6900 North Loop 1604 W, San Antonio, TX 78249, Ph. 210-691-4310.


DOLBY SURROUND On December 27th National Public Radio's WEEKEND EDITION featured a special recording, in Dolby Surround (TH), of Liane Hansen at LURAY CAVERNS' "Great Stalacpipe Organ". This was the first Dolby Surround music recording engineered exclusively for radio broadcast in the United States. EXHIBITS Interpretative cave life, cave geology, and cave history exhibits are being made for IfARENGO CAVE by Carol Evans. Special highlighting to feature geological features has been installed on both IfARENGO tours. Exploration in the newly discovered areas continues. CLEANUPS Along with other conservation articles, two stories in the February 1993 NSS NEltS tell of show cave cleaning and maintenance. John Chenger tells of 36 people from eight caving clubs participating in a caver-organized cleanup trip to LAUREL CAVERNS, and Pat Jablonsky pays tribute to both the maintenance staff and the many volunteers who \~ork "behind the scenes" to keep CARLSBAD CAVERNS looking good. BUILDING/REMODELING A lot of our NCA members have been making above ground changes .. ... DeSOTO CAVERNS ha~comPleted an addition to house a meeting room, an employees lounge, and three offices ... BLUESPRING CAVERNS is in the process of building a new Hospitality House .. OHIO CAVERNS has bout completed a 40x60 addition with a full basement .. BRIDAL CAVE will be opening their new Gift Shop and Visitor Center this year they've also expanded the parking lot . .. lIembers who visited CRYSTAL LAKE CAVE following the 1992 Convention sail Jim and Doris Rubel's building plans .. COSlIIC CAVERNS new Visitor Center more than quadrupled their gift shop sales .. LAKE SHASTA CAVERNS is completely changing and revamping their main Gift Shop the road up to the cave has been widened ... they are no'! using diesel busses the building at the cave entrance has been remodeled into a Visi tor Center. ... The Gift Shop at RUBY FALLS is being completely remodeled. HAKE YOUR PLANS NOW The Twenty-eigth Annual NCA Convention ,/ill be October 18-22, 1993 at Spring Hill State Park in Indiana. BLUES PRING CAVERNS and IlI\RENGO CAVE are the hosting caves. Post Convention trips to the more distant Indiana caves will be planned. The Pike's Peak Rock Shop generously reimbursed the NCA for the additional postage necessary to include their literature with this mailing. Tourism Works ... $360 billion Spent By All Travelers $47 billion in Tax Receipts 6 million Jobs $91 billion payrOli li (~,~~ Tourism Works For America! And your community. .',.:. 'n Tourist.dollars are spent and respen!. The resulting j. ~ .1.' ;' .. : multiplier effect assures that everyone benefits, ,; f I from this important industry. '. .~ :'~ 'J." N I T I t ... ~ at onal rave and TOUrism Awareness Council, Washington, D.C. Telephone: 2021861-6401


The NCA Property/Liability Program continues to be a success. A total of 30 NCA caves are participating in the program offered by Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. The caves are experiencing enhanced coverages, increased limits, competitive pricing and an incentive for loss control through the 50/50 dividend plan offered by Fireman's Fund Insurance Company. In the Fall we renewed our 10 original member caves. Recent new cave members include Ruby Falls, Natural Bridge Caverns (TX), Perry's Cave and Lost Sea, Inc. Special thanks goes out to current members for promoting the NCA program to regional member caves. Please find below the complete NCA program membership roster. We encourage all members to at least complete an application to receive a quote prior to their upcoming renewals. Together with Fireman's Fund, we are making aggressive changes to meet the needs of all members. It is important for the association as a whole to sponsor this program. Black Hills Cavems Bridal Cal'e and Thunder Mountain Park Cave of the Mounds Caverns of Sonora Cl)'stal Cave (WI) Fantastic Caverns Hunicane River Cave Lake Shasta Caverns Lincoln Caverns Meramec Caverns Natural Bridge Caverns (TX) Olentangy Indian Caverns Perry's Cave Raccoon Mountain Caverns Seneca Caverns Bluespring Cavems BJistol Caverns Cave of the Winds Cl)'stal Cave (PA) Cumberland Caverns Howe Caverns Ice Cal'e Laurel Cal'erns Lost Sea Mystic Cal'erns Natural Stone Bridge & Cal'es (NY) Organ Cave Polar Caves Park Ruby Falls Wonder Cave


Welcome Aboard ! For those of you who don't already know, the Arthur 1. Gallagher & Co. staff has increased to serve your needs. After the convention in Wisconsin, Jeanne Adelmann was named a co-producer with Keith Dobrolinsky to handle all cave business. In addition, Jeni Rademacher has replaced Joelle Rothen as Customer Sales Associate. She will be working with member caves on renewals and other cave projects. Sue Hamler, Client Service Representative, will continue to handle all technical related issues including certificate issuance, addition/deletion of autos, changes in values, etc. If you should ever have any questions, you can reach the service team at 1-800-345-0275. COINSURANCE AND THE AGREED AMOUNT El\'DORSEMENT Most property insurance policies have a coinsurance clause. This clause works like this: In exchange for a reduced rate, the insured agrees to carry insurance to a specified percentage of the value of the property 80%, 90% or 100% of the value. If the specified amount of insurance is not carried, a penalty may be imposed at the time of a loss. This clause is used in most property policies to encourage "insurance to value". If the insured does not insure to the specified value, the amount paid at the time of the loss may be reduced. The reduction is directly proportional to the amount of underinsurance and can be substantial. This penalty, however, can be avoided ... The agreed amount endorsement takes the place of the coinsurance clause. A yearly valuation is made of the property. Most companies today will accept a "signed statement of values" for this yearly valuation. If the insured maintains the amount of insurance required, all claims are paid in full up to the policy limits. If not, a penalty can be imposed similar to the coinsurance penalty. Unlike the coinsurance clause where the required amount of insurance is determined at the time of loss, when the agreed amount endorsement is used, the required amount of insurance the agreed amount c is determined at the inception of the policy. Under this approach, there is no uncertainty in meeting the insurance-to-value requirements. The agreed amount endorsement protects the insured against unintentional undervaluation of property and should be used whenever available from the insurer. Fireman's Fund offers this endorsement as an option. Please contact Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. if you would like to review this coverage.


WHERE HA VE THE LOSSES BEEN OCCURRING? As cave owners, you may be aware that many people feel that there are significant exposures to claims within the cave itself, due to interior walking surfaces, dampness, various changes in elevation and restriction of heights or widths. Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. painted the correct picture to Fireman's Fund on how safe caves really are. In reality, the major loss exposure may be outside your cave on the surrounding premises. Some causes of loss include: Walking surfaces may be cracked, uneven or tipped. Solutions to this may be mudjacking, asphalt application or replacement. Porches & steps should be equipped with sturdy railings, hand rails, slip-resistent surfaces and bright colored edging. Parking lot potholes & tracks should be repaired by cold asphalt or concrete patch. Grip hazards from car stops may also be evident, which can be solved by painting with bright colored edging. Construction equipment such as backhoes, riding lawnmowers, etc. can all create injury. Solution may be place these out of sight of your customers, preferably in a shed so they will not be climbed on by little children or tampered with by vandals after hours. Personal recreation and pwyground equipment should be securely mounted into the earth so it will not tip. The equipment should be tipped periodically to detect any damage and repair as soon as possible. Any recreational pools on premises should be fenced and locked at all times to prevent unauthorized visits to the pool area. "Visiting" and "owned" pets should be kept penned during normal business hours. Your campground guests should be aware that pets should not be let to run wild. They should be accompanied by their owner on a leash. Trash receptacles tend to be a tipping hazard and often cause damage to surrounding property during inclement weather. A solution would be to anchor these so they would not become such a hazard. A rule of thumb is to look at your business through "child-like eyes". What would attract you? How could you get hurt? Note these deficiencies during your periodic review of your property and correct them. A couple of dollars of prevention is worth thousands of dollars of injury and claims costs and could eventually effect your operation's dividend return.


SPECIAL NOTE: Any current member receiving loss control recommendations by Fireman's Fund should follow up in writing by explaining your plans for meeting these recommendations. If there is a problem with the recommendations being made, please contact Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. for assistance! If you currently have coverage in the NCA program and have not placed all }'our lines of coverage with Arthur J. Gallagher & Co., please provide us with a copy of the policy so we can provide the necessary quotes. QUOTE OF THE DAY: "To love whaJ you do and/eel thaJ it matters how could anything be more /un?" KaJharine Graham


, COHHENTS AND SUGGESTIONS IROH NCA OUIDOOR ADVERTISING SURVEY ie're sbaring tbese cOI.ents and suggestions as a type of. open forul to enable our NCA .elbers to betterunderstana tbe .any vays adaitional restrictive sign legislation could affect sbov cave ovners and ovners of otber natural attractions ... Signs are tbe 11 reasnn people cOle to our cave. lbey are ilportant tn us, secona to our custo.ers people vould have a bard tile linding us vitbout our signs. DeSOIO CAVERNS PANK ... ie dn a visitors' .survey each seasnn. AppI. 351 nf the respondents list 'billboards' (2nd only to brochures I as their ansver to, "Bov did you hear about Lincoln Caverns?" ie hear co"ents allost daily as to vhy don't ve have HORE signs. LINCOLN CAVERNS ... Recently ve went through a fight with the cnunty supervisors. lhey wanted ali signs removed vithin 10 years ana any sign dalaged Inre tban 50\ reloved i'led!ately. Witb tbe help 01 the Chalber 01 COllerce and dovntovn businesses we were able to deleat this leasure. ie had to settle lor no new billboards, but ve can repair any billboard that is da.aged. fhis ligbt took over a year to settle. Showing tbel hnv luch business tbis would cost us vas a big belp. SKYLINE CAVERNS ... fourisl Natural Area directional signs should be allowed .. Our biggest cllplaint lro. customers is our lack 01 directional signing. fhey do not understand that the state will lor pro.ide or allow sncb signing. POLAR CAVES lARK ... Continue to build relationsbips vitb politicians. RUBY IALLS ... Hany people like directional signs. People tell us we sbould bave lore, but we can't get lare not allowed I any .nre. CRYSIAL CAVR, PA ... Go for tourist related advertising only and get tbe beer and cigarette cOlpanies all tbe billboards. LAUREL CAVERNS .. ie ale in tbe "Adarondack State Park" wbere signage is restricted to vhere one is actually conducting ones' business. We can't even ba.e directional signs 1 Ibis, unlortunately, is probably a lodel lor vbat tbe Scenic Byways Advisory COlmittee vants. NAIURAL SlONE BRIDGE AND CAVES ... lbe Logo Signs on tbe Interstate in Hissouri will not let caves use tbel. ONYX HOUNTAIN CAVERNS I ... Creation of lore elploYlent sbould be elpbasired. NURRICANE RIVER CAVE I ... Oregon bas been tougb nn billboards lor years. Witb lewer signs we distribute lore brncbures, but tbey don't replace good billboard locations. SEA LION CAVRS I ... 1 would like to see 'Seasonal" contracts available lrol billboara cOlpanies. We don't use billboards because ve still bave to pay for tbe signs wben we are closed. Could a ¡National" sign calpaign to put up signs vitb NCA lngn be purcbased on a volule & discnunt basis? CRYSIAL CAVI, il ... AII but nne of our signs are on our property. We don't believe any nrganiration sbould dictate vhat we can use our land lor. SIIIING BULL CRYSIAL CAVE ... 1 tbink we should separate ourselves frnl cigarette, beer & liquor cOlpanies. Ask tbat [bighwayl advertising for tbel be probibited. Hopefully this will take the heat off of us, .ake brownie pnints witb legislators, and reduce the cnst of outdnor advertising .... 1 tbink we sbould calpaign to lilit [higbwaYI advertising to roadside businesses and natural attractions, and educate tbe public and legislatoIs to wby tbis is ilportant to tbese specilic businesses. HARINGO CAVI ... ie are nn tbe Interstate Oirection Signs already and can barely tell tbat tbey've done any gond. II we lost our signs, we would probably ba.e to close down. RACCOON HOUNIAIN CAVERNS


... The nearest lajor highway to our attraction is 16 liles away, if we did not have hillhoard advertising our doors would he closed I WONDERLAND CAVE ... Billhoards are needed to assist public in reaching their travel destinations. NERCER CAVERNS It would be a devastating blow to our attraction and consequently to the general econolY and elploytent in the Town of Luray Ipopulation 4,5001 if we lost our ability to call attention to this attraction hy higbway signing. {Suggestion I Deterline what type of signing could he further regulated without adversely affection the tourist industry. Redefine the lost acceptable and have reasons why signing can be helpful to tbe traveling public ie, safety, knowledge of location of services, econolic benefits tbat provide tal revenue to support otber prograls, ie, education, fighting crine, drug prevention, etc. LURAY CAVERNS ... We all n~ed to keep our Senators and Congresslen inforled as to our need for directional signs. All of us have other leans of advertising available to us, but we need outdoor directional signs for the traveler to find our caves and caverns which are not located on the higbway without signs these travelers would not find their way to our Caverns. NATURAL BRIDGE CAVERNS ... Witbout outdoor advertising, we'd bave difficulty inforling tbe traveling public about our elistenceiattraction. INNER SPACE CAVERR .. "Signs Are' Beautiful' Sbould lake effort to lake signage pleasing to the eye and point out infor,ation value land eotertainlent value I to tbe traveling public. Host roadsides are not particularly pleasing to the eye these days with large cuts, elbanklents, etc.--good signage can actually contribute to the driving experience -add interest and variety, and decrease boredo.. It's pretty hard to justify large ugly billboards for gas stations, restaurants, hotels, cellular phones, etc. Perhaps we should separate ourselves frol tbe lass of outdoor advertising by trying to lake our signs' as visually pleasing and interesting as possible as natural attractions providing inforlation necessary to the traveller. BLUESFRING CAVERNS I.

Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves
Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965
by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial
members sought to bring together show cave owners and
operators from across the United States to promote the show
cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas,
and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave


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