Cave Talk

Cave Talk

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Cave Talk
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Cave Talk
National Cave Association
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Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring together show cave owners and operators from across the United States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave industry.
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March 2017
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Robert A. Holt PO Box 625, Cobleskill, NY 12043 E xecutive Director Phone: 518 231 5420 E mail: March 2017 Greetings from St. Louis So here we are attending our annual Mid Winter B oard of Directors meeting as this edition of Cave Talk is being prepared to send to you! We officially welcomed our newest Board members, Lisa McClung from Lost Sea representing Region 9 and Eric Helton from Diamond Caverns representing Region 2. The insu rance guys Keith Dobrolinsky and Pat O Sullivan along with Brad Wuest informed us on how we are getting ready to create a c aptive insurance program. Pat was speaking about r isk management and loss control when he overflows his glass with a pitcher full of ice At dinner, Brad Wuest was the only one who wanted dessert so he order s five different ones for himself in hopes the rest of us would help him eat up! The Board of course attends to the regul ar business of the association which cons umes a good portion of our time together We enjoy doing the fun stuff li ke supporting ISCA on creating an International Cave & K arst Day set for June 6 every year. 2021 will be d esignated as the Internati onal Year of Cave & K arst. We will have more details when this becomes official as this process for designation takes time. It will give all of us the opportunity to promote our caves all around th e world. As we have another full day of meetings, we will provide more information f or you in the April edition of C ave Talk. OFFICERS President : Patty Perlaky Cave Without A Name, TX Ph: 830 537 4212 Vice President : John Graves Luray Caverns, VA Ph: 540 743 6551 john.graves@luraycaverns. com Secretary Treasurer : Bob Holt Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 518 231 5420 Past President : Steve Rawlings Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 209 728 2101 REGIONAL DIRECTORS Region One : (CT, DE, ME, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT) Rob Arey Polar Caves Park NH Ph: 603 536 1888 Region Two : (MD, VA, WV, KY) Eric Helton Diamond Caverns, KY Ph: 270 749 2233 Region Three : (IL, IN, MI, OH) Claudia Yundt Squire Boone Caverns, IN Ph: 812 732 4382 Region Four : (AR, IA, KS, MO, NE) Dennis Boyer War Eagle Cavern, AR Ph: 479 789 2909 Region Five : (MN, MT, ND, SD, WI) Tom Hagen Rushmore Cave, SD Ph: 60 5 255 4467 Region Six : (CA, ID, NV, OR, WA, AK, HI, Barbados, Bermuda) Matt Doyle Lake Shasta Caverns, CA Ph: 800 795 CAVE Region Seven : (AZ, CO, NM, UT, WY) Steve Beckley Glenwood Caverns, CO Ph: 970 945 4CAV Region Eight : (LA, OK, TX) Ed Mayfield Caverns of Sonora, TX Ph: 325 387 3105 Region Nine : (AL, FL, GA, MS, NC, SC, TN ) Lisa McClung Lost Sea, TN Ph: 423 337 6616 D IRECTOR AT LARGE Denise Bell Seneca Caverns, OH Ph: 419 483 6711 D IRECTOR EMERITUS Steve Runkle Cave of the Winds, CO Ph: 719 685 5444


Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park will introduce a new thrill ride in 2017: The Haunted Mine Drop Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park in Glenwood Springs, Colorado, will introduce its newest attraction this summer, the Haunted Mine Drop. It will be the first drop ride to go underground, dropping riders 110 120 feet down inside Iron Mountain. As usual with this community minded, family owned business, all of the contractors involved in the onsite construction are from Colorado. The park is working with two out of state industry experts to theme and build the attraction. The ride is being const ructed by Stan Checketts in Logan, Soaring Eagle Zip Ride. He also constructed the Stratosphere Tower Big Shot in Las Vegas and has thrill rides located across the globe. Mark McDonough and his team at St. Louis based Creative Visions are theming the attraction, which ghosts, an illusion technique invented by Professor John Henry Pepper and English engineer He nry Dircks in the 1800s. Creative Visions has developed characters for theme parks, museums, zoos, aquariums, haunted attractions and amusement centers around rry Farm, MGM Grand Adventure, Six Flags and David Copperfield. The building housing the ride will be themed to look like an old mine building and will be located on to p of Iron Mountain at an elevation of 7,000 feet. Guests enjoy a scenic gondola ride to reach the Adventure Park. story line. Upo inside the mine shaft. M ore ghosts will appear at the bottom to continue the tale, and then the ride returns to the main level for exit. A conceptual drawing for the new Haunted Mine Drop ride. Photo Glenwood Caverns The 110 foot deep shaft where the ride will drop underground An A frame hoist is being used to dig out the shaft for the new Haunted Mine Drop.


The new Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park ride is part of a larger investment of some $2.5 million into park improvements for the coming year that will include a new pathway loop connecting the Mine Drop ride to the lower cave tour area and back up to the top of the park. Click Here Click Here Cathedral Caverns featured on CBS Sunday Morning The folks at Cathedral Caverns were proud to be featured on CBS. As the saying goes at the conclusion of the show On February We leave you this Sunday Morning in the depths of Cathedral Caverns in northern Alabama. Videographer: Tom Cosgrove. View Cathedral Caverns on CBS Sunday Morning Get Well Wishes as he recently underwent surgery and is reported to be o work Sympathy We also send our deepest condolences to the Woodruff f amily on the recent Work is underway to construct a new building facade and entryway at the Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park atop Iron Mountain above Glenwood Springs. An artist rendering of the entrance building is located at the right.


Mark Trimble passes Doug Campbell of Fantastic Caverns said it best We lost a very influential man. Mark Trimble was one of the original entrepreneurs in the cave industry. He was the one that started the Ride Thru Cave Tour at Fantastic Caverns in the early 1960's and was still active in the business. Many of you did not know him but he was one of the original few that started the NCA. And I was damn proud to know him and call Ozark Tourism Pioneer Mark Trimble, passed away peacefully in his home south of Hollister, Missouri on Saturday, February 11, 201 7. He was 85. Markley Lowell Trimble was born in Ithaca, NY, August 23, 1931 to Dr. Bruce Trimble PhD and Mary Hendrickson Trimble while Dr. Trimble was at Cornell University. He grew up in Kansas City and attended Hickman Mills Schools, but graduated from Branson High School in 1949 after his parents had purchased the Lizzie McDaniel estate in The Shepherd of the Hills. The Trimbles continued to develop the property, and it later became known as The Shepherd of the Hills Farm. Mark graduated from University of Arkansas with a degree in Civil Engineering and attended Penn State University as part of the Air Force Institu te of Technology program studying Meteorology and became an authority on Hydrology. He served in the United States Air Force from 1956 to 1958 working in the Wing Weather Office in Salina, Kansas, and Upper Hayford, England. While in the Air Force Reserve he attained the rank of Captain. He married Leola Kay Benedict in 1961, and together they had two children, Kelly and Shelly. to continue development and she and Mark entered into a partnership. On Saturday night, August 6, 1959, The Shepherd of the Hills play first opened at the Old Mill Theater, Shepherd of the Hills Farm. Mark spoke the first words that night playing the part of The Stranger, a narrator of the story. With the help of his wife, Lea, Mark continued the play and devel oping and promoting the attraction, as well as the Branson area, until selling to Gary Snadon, a Branson businessman and former Shepherd cast member. Mark was very active in the creation of several other tourist attractions, most notably Fantastic Caverns in Springfield which he developed concurrently with Shepherd of the Hills, selling the cave property to Russ Campbell, the manager, in the late 1990s. He opened the Ozark Auto Show Museum which later spawned the Branson Collector Car Auction which is now o perated bi annually by Jim Cox and is yet another major feature of the Branson landscape. He served on the board of directors for several businesses and various community organizations, including Security Bank, Skaggs Community Hospital, the Missouri Pilot s Association, and Branson Lakes Area Chamber of Commerce. More notably, early in the development of his own tourism related enterprises he was active in the Ozarks Playground Association and then co founded the Ozarks Marketing Council with three other no table area businessmen, the organization considered most directly responsible for putting Missouri tourism, and most particularly Branson area tourism, on a path to being recognized as the significant and important industry it is recognized to be today. In serving his community, Mark received numerous awards and recognition. Among these awards are the Missouri Division of Tourism Distinguished Service Award, the 1977 Missouri Tourism Man of the Year, The College of the Ozarks The NCA organizational meeting in 1965 was hosted by Mark Trimble. A bove, a ttendees are gathered at the cabin of Shepherd of th e Hills.


Family Values Award, the Branso Clark Command Pilot Award, the Federal Aviation Administration Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award, the 2006 Missourian Award, and others. Mark was an avid collector of airplanes, automobiles, and local history. He will be greatly missed by friends, family, and the community. Mark is survived by his wife of 56 years Lea, his son Kelly and wife Patricia, and three grandchildren. He was preceded in death by his parents, his brother Don, and his daughter Shelly. Funeral services took place Saturday, February 18 at 3:00 P.M. at the Ozark Auto Show, 134 Industr ial Park Drive, Hollister, MO. Burial followed in Ozarks Memorial Park Cemetery on East Highway 76, Branson. Arrangements are under the direction of Snapp Bearden Funeral Home and Crematory. Please consider memorial donations memo), P O. Box 650, Branson, MO 65615 to be used for the Infusion Room or to Compassus Hospice, 3044 Shepherd of the Hills Expy #200, Branson, MO 65616. The Family wishes to thank Compassus Hospice for their extraordinary care and compassion. know he purchased the famous plane that was always seen on the tv Watch this news report on the legacy of Mark Trimble: Branson remembers local icon Lake Shasta Caverns goes high tech with new Coca Cola freestyle machine Moving up to the 21st century...we just received our Coca Cola Freestyle machine!!! Micro dosing technology, cartridges that sense remaining product and will order product, and has a selection with over 120 drinks! This is sooooo COOL! The machine uses a cellular service through Verizon. No Ethernet/LAN connection is required. The only thing I had to run was a water line with a filter, a drain and a dedicated electrical circuit. For the real tech savvy people, you can download the app, create your own drink and take control of the unit dispensing/mixing from your phone! et people make any flavor they want,,, and the people demand Cherry Sprite Read More Here Matt Doyle Trimble sits in the midst of his collection of parts for aircrafts automobiles and many other hobby needs.


Brine well could cause massive sinkhole in Carlsbad Our friend George Veni of NCKRI weighs in The brine well in Carlsbad NM has been abandoned for the past several years. The well is underneath a massive piece of property where businesses, hotels, restaurants and gas stations now sit. The land is more than two football field long, a football field wide and two football fields deep. Geology and time have caused a huge problem: the well is now nothing more than a home to a massive sinkhole. Experts say the land could collapse at any time. The damage would be unfathomable, to the tune of more than $1 billion. t can start collapsing in 10 or For some perspective, Veni said a sinkhole like this has the potential to swallow a building the size of the New Mexico Roundhouse (state capitol) It sounds almost like something out of a movie, but the danger is very real. Veni said. The state is well aware of the danger. It currently has an active monitoring system. This will help to pinpoint more accurately when a collapse might happen. Veni warns that this potential crisis must be addressed. what, or we can Meantime, state lawmakers are taking notice. A bill sponsored by Rep. Cathrynn Brown, R Carlsbad, aims to create an authority to provide funding to deal with this issue said. Meantime, people here are living in fear and worry about the possible sinkhole. They say the state must deal with this immediat ely Another local who lives Watch Dr. George Veni here on : KOB 4 New Mexico


NCA Buyers Talk In mid January Andrew at DeSoto Caverns asked a simple what were your top 3 sellers for 2016? We gave him our insight and that was that. from Cave of the Mounds had added her 2¢ while I was gone. In addition to her top 3 sellers, she suggested that maybe we should be thinking about WHY they are our top sellers and WHAT they sho uld be. Why and What are much deeper questions. They touch on subjects that are not just related to the retail area, but the attraction realized it or not, Jan was introducing a completely different line of contemplating. Here is what she had to say: One thing that I think is really important to analyze in your store, is not just what is your best seller, but WHY?! We used to sell more bouncy balls and flocked, pink unicorns to school kids than I would ever imagine, and then I woke up and realized that $$ in the hand of a school child is mine no matter what rarely does a kid take any home as they are dete rmined to use it all. So what item do I want them leaving with? One that has a fantastic profit margin, is educational, and that as a parent I wouldn't think about throwing in the trash 3 months down the road when the novelty wore off. Pink unicorns and rubber balls don't last long in my house they move on to the greener pastures of the St. Vinnies down the road pretty quickly. What Jan had to say is some of the best advice I have heard in years. School children are going to spend it all and maybe we should think about what they are taking home with them. A few years ago I ran into a classmate. Not only did he bring up that trip our third grade took to Fantastic Caverns 40 So give that some thought. Would he have saved a rubber all igator all these years? How about a whoopee cushion? Maybe a trick camera? Or might he have saved a fanny over the years. In fact not only have we sold them, like Jan we sold staggering quantities of them. However, just because you can The bouncing ball, cow in a can, and rubber oops were once perennial top sellers at Fantastic Caverns. One time Fantastic Caverns bestseller, the switchblade comb, was included in the great tchotchke liquidation of 1993.


About 20 years ago I found myself asking this very question. I came to the conclusion that if you want your attraction to including the retail area. As a result I made an effort to better control what children and adults were purchasing. Not only did we get rid of all the eliminated candy as an option during field trip season. No offense intended to the candy vendors of the world, I love candy as much or more then the next guy. I just feel it would be better to sell children a $1 rock with an informational card; as opposed to a sucker that would be gone before they got back to school. About 20 years ago I found myself asking this very question. I came to the conclusion that if you want your attraction to including the retail area. As a result I made an effort to better control wh at children and adults were purchasing. Not only did we get rid of all the eliminated candy as an option during field trip season. No offense intended to the candy vendors of the world, I love candy as much or more then the next guy. I just feel it would be better to sell children a $1 rock with an informational card; as opposed to a sucker that would be gone before they got back to school. add to the perceived value. School children are a potential repeat customer not once but twice; the first time with their parents and again y ears later with their children. As their parent, are you going to want to visit the cave that sold your child a $2 bouncy ball that could have been purchased for 50¢ at the supermarket bubble gum machine? Probably not. How about the cave that sold your child a $2 amethyst cluster? Maybe not, but there is a much off at the As buyers it is a given that we are to generate revenue. However I think we can sometimes be a little short sighted when it comes to now. But if you take into account the perceived value you can add by controlling what your top amethyst cluster then the ru bber alligator? cluster better represent your caves mission statement and values? thrown in the trash? In this time of out of ubber alligator hater times when they are appropriate. However is a cave gift shop the right place for them? Maybe decide. All I know is that I would be more then a little irritated if my kid spent $5 on a rubber alligator. Thanks for making us think a little Jan! Jeff Campbell Fantastic Caverns you want guests to remember their visit?


NCA Insurance Column: Take control of your risk management destiny With a previous year of record catastrophic losses for the insurance industry, leading experts expect specific niche industries will be faced with higher premiums and tougher underwriting standards. The tourism industry is not immune to these marketplace upheavals. Now, I do not expect a post 9/11 for attractions with tougher risk exposures, a history of loss experience and a lack of focus as it relates to risk management and safety. One way cave owners can minimize their exposure to loss and reduce their overall cost of risk is to consider participating in an i nsurance consortium. Last year, we launched the Lloyds Cave and Natural Attraction Insurance Program. This program is a by product of the original NCA Insurance Program and over two years of work by members of the NCA Insurance Steering Committee. The pro gram allows NCA more when it comes to reducing overall cost of risk. The following key program components are the foundation toward ultim ate control through a captive or risk retention group. Tailor made and enhanced coverages to address the current and changing exposures of our members Proactive loss control and safety programs specific to cave operations and other on site attractions Uni que, one of a kind opportunity for a lucrative loss control bonus based upon member loss experience. about time we can take advantage of our great loss experience! cave exposures Leading support and resources of the world largest insurance carrier, Lloyds of London Greater stability of premiums during hard and soft market cycles We are very excited about this new program and have already added two new members since December. They include In the events leading up to the inception of the new program, we were unable to provide proposals for some of the members. In some cas e, the underwriters required additional information and/or needed more time to evaluate the risk. Nonetheless, we are now open for business. Our plan is as follows: If a cave has an upcoming spring insurance renewal, we have already reached out to them to obtain a complete copy of their current policies and five years of loss experience. We will complete a review, develop an underwriting submission and present a proposal 30 days prior to renewal. If a cave has a renewal in October, we would like to obtain a complete copy of your insurance policies and five years of loss experience. We will review the information and request any additional information required by the underwriters. We will need this information no later than May 15 th Our goal will be to have a final proposal presented no later than July 15 th Please note that if you have attractions not typical of a cave operation (i.e. amusement devices, zoos, etc.), we will need to conduct an on site inspection with the underwriter. We hope to have these in spections completed by June 15th. We welcome any questions about the program and look forward to 100% member participation. When the first program was established in 1990, our goal was to have more control of our insurance destiny and dollar. Your particip ation in our new program will insure accomplishing this long time goal by so many within the NCA. Keith Dobrolinsky Assurance Agency


Bats gone batty? Thanks to Mike Caywood, Alabaster Caverns State Park for this Facebook That's it, I've given up on all of the name calling, finger pointing, politically based jibber jabber that Facebook is so famous for these days and am focusing my efforts on something that has gone mostly unnoticed by the internet ... alcohol dependent bats!!! I mea n, eating all that fruit, they have to run into some fermented offerings every now and then. Please join me in this fight!!! Bat population up at Alabaster Caverns On a serious and exciting note, Mike also posted this photo saying of January we went into the cavern to see how many little flying critters we had and were pleasingly surprised...over 19,000 bats!!! Almost 3,000 more than last year's count. Winter is a very good time to see them as they hibernate close to the pathway. WNS Report The Soudan Underground Mine in northern Minnesota has seen unusual bat activity this winter, unfortunately, a sign of WNS. Sequiota Caverns near Springfield, MO showed a slight increase in the number of bats this winter. Researchers swabbed several to determine if WNS was present, although the bats did not look to be infected. In New York, a USFW funded study determined five types of bats use the Albany Pine Bush. They aim to increasethe population of bats that feed and breed in the Pine Bush by attracting them with insects and roosting sites. Lincoln Caverns hosted its 11th annual Batfest on Feb. 11th. They had activities (craft s and bathouses) and speakers who raised the understanding of bats. Included in Batfest was a tour of the cave. In case you are wondering what the CBD is busy doing: In December, the BLM auctioned some land in the Wayne National Forest for oil and gas l eases. The Little Fish Brewery part n ered with an environmental group, the Buckeye Environmental Network. With a new brew called 'No Frackin' Wayne,' they are donating a portio n of the sales to fight the BLM. On January 26th, the CBD and others filed a not ice of intent to sue the USFS, BLM, and USFW over "invalid and outdated Endangered Species Act approvals of oil and gas leasing plans for the Wayne National Forest. The BLM then announced plans to have another auction o March 23rd. The CBD has filed an administrative protest challenging the auction. Patty Perlaky WNS Chair


New little caver at Natural Bridge Caverns Brad & Lexi Wuest of Natural Bridge Caverns welcomed their new baby boy Harrison Reginald Wuest who was born on February 1, 2017 at 4:13 AM. He weighed 6 lb 14 oz and was 21" long. Welcome Harris! One day caving helmet! Total solar e clipse coming in August get a total Solar eclipse this summer, (August 21, 2017, Monday). It will follow a 80 mile wide path across America beginning at Salem Oregon and working itself east by south east passing rig ht through some of our best SE cavern territories. Some of the caverns may be directly under or very near the Moon shadow center line and could take advantage of d oing special eclipse events, before or following, the totality. Use this map site: The maps are quite detailed and should be OK to locate the cave proximity. It looks like several of the caves are directly on the center of the eclipse path lucky them. conduct and interpret the event. We all get plenty of chances to conduct under ground natural wonder tours and events, but here is a chance to conduct a heavenly event from 93,000,000 miles away. Being a Monday the extra parking, and visitors should not compete with our heavier weekend vi sitation. Gift shop and extra tours before and after the event could be just that much better. catch and see many eclipses and it has always been an adventure and very rewarding. Reseda, CA, 91335, (818) 708 order from their web site: Best wishes to all. Steve & Linda Sierra Nevada Recreation Corporation


Presents the First Annual GEOLOGY GEM, FOSSIL & MINERAL SHOW Cobleskill, NY September 30, 2017 Saturday 9 5 October 1, 2017, Sunday 9 4 Public Admission: $5/day Number of Vendors: 40 Location: Doc Reilly Park, Nippen (Dug) Road Cobleskill, N ew York 12043 Latitude/Longitude: 42.682768, 74.386266 Directions: (1) From the north south and east (Albany) take I 90 west to Exit 25A, take I 88 west to Exit 23, take a right onto Route 30A, go 0.2 miles and turn left onto Route 7/30A and go 4.2 miles. The show will be on the rig ht. (2) From the west (Binghamton) take I 88 east to Exit 22, take a left onto Route 145, go 0.2 miles, turn right on Route 7 and go 1.8 miles. The show will be on the left. Show Attractions: Guided tours of the Cave House Museum, rock garden and fossil hunting area will be available to the general public the days of the show. Raffles of mineral and fossil samples Food vendors Local harvest foods Presentations by geologists on the history and geology of the Howes Cave area Other Attractions: Show is approximately 3 miles from Howe Caverns and Secret Caverns and 2 miles from the Iroquois Indian Museum. The scenic Schoharie Valley is 10 minutes away. The Blenheim Gilboa Dam Visitors Center and Gilboa Fossils Site is less than 45 minutes from the show Proceeds su pport the not for profit Cave House Museum of Mining & Geology in Howes Cave, NY. The NCA will be present at this show with a tabletop display distributing our brochures


Snow, snow, beautiful snow has finally arrived! According to Greg Beckler and the entire Beckler family of Natural A real winter has FINALLY arrived! The northeast has had two mild winters until the second week of February this year. building? Calendar of Events NSS Convention 201 7 Rio Rancho, New Mexico June 19 23, 2017 The 17 th International Congress of Speleology (UIS), Sydney, Australia, July 23 29, 2017 NCA Convention 2017, Host: Mark Twain Cav e, Hannibal, Missouri, September 18 21, 2017 Geology Gem, Fossil and Mineral Show. Cave House Museum of Mining & Geology, Cobleskill, New York, September 30 & October 1, 2017 National Cave and Karst Management Symposium Eureka Springs, Arkansas, October 16 20, 2017 Smok y Mountain Gift Show 2017 Sevie rville, Pigeon Forge & Gatlinburg, Tennessee, (Dates TBD) IAAPA 2017, Orlando, Florida, November 14 17, 2017 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 201 8 Tucson, Arizona, January 27 February 1 1 201 8 NCA Mid Winter Board of Directors Meeting, Renaissance Airport Hotel, St. Louis, Missouri, Februa ry 2 6 28 201 8 The Sinkhole Conference, Shepherdstown, West Virginia, April 2 6, 2018 NSS Convention 201 8, Whitefish, Montana, July 29 August 4, 2018 NCA Convention 2018, Host: Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park, Glenwood Springs, Colorado, September 24 28, 2018 ISCA 8 th Congress 2018, Genga, Italy, October (Dates TBD) Smok y Mountain Gift Show 2018 Gatlinburg, Tennessee, (Dates TBD) IAAPA 201 8 Orlando, Florida, November 11 16, 2018 NCA Convention 2019, Host: Ruby Falls, Chattanooga Tennessee, (Dates TBD) Got News? Please make sure you let Bob Holt know when you have news to share with the membership regarding you and your cave. It is the goal of the NCA office to continue producing monthly issues of Cave Talk and this can only happen when you help with the sharing o f your news. Please send your articles, photographs to April 2017 C ave Talk Deadline Please have all articles to Bob Holt no later than March 15. Thank you


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