Cave Talk

Cave Talk

Material Information

Cave Talk
Series Title:
Cave Talk
National Cave Association
Publication Date:


Subjects / Keywords:
Karst ( lcsh )
Resource management
serial ( sobekcm )


Cave Talk is a publication of the National Caves Association, a non-profit trade association founded in 1965 by a small group of private show cave owners. These initial members sought to bring together show cave owners and operators from across the United States to promote the show cave industry to the public, to share information and ideas, and to lobby for legislation favorable to the show cave industry.
Original Version:
May 2015
Open Access - Permission by Publisher

Record Information

Source Institution:
University of South Florida Library
Holding Location:
University of South Florida
Rights Management:
All applicable rights reserved by the source institution and holding location.
Resource Identifier:
K26-05303 ( USFLDC DOI )
k26.5303 ( USFLDC Handle )

USFLDC Membership

Added automatically
Karst Information Portal

Postcard Information



This item is only available as the following downloads:

Full Text


Robert A. Holt PO Box 625, Cobleskill, NY 12043 E xecutive Director Phone: 518 231 5420 E mail: 1965 Celebrating Our 50th Year 2015 MAY 2015 Message From The Executive Director Greetings Friends, Much has been happening in the NCA office as we move forward with the production of a new brochure design Gary Berdeaux has been creating for us. We plan to have this in production by the end of the month or by early June. We would like to welcome two new Aff iliate Members to the NCA. Prime Pedal Karts are safe, durable, low maintenance pedal karts that are being used across a variety of rental markets. All of Prime Pedal K arts are made for heavy duty commercial use but any of their models are available for sale to private use customers Thanks to Tim Lacy at DeSoto Caverns Park for bringing them into membership as DeSoto uses th is product Derek Lother is the sales rep and you may reach him at d or call him at 866 475 0450 Check them out at L. W. Bristol Classics is no stranger to many of us as they have been dis playing at our Vendor Shows at c onvention for quite some time. They offer a variety of custom products such as lapel pins, magnets, key chains, zipper pulls, patches and much, much more. Thanks to Steve Rawlings and Claudia Yundt for bringing them into membership. Barry Dutton is the sales rep and you may reach him at or call him at 800 654 0777 Visit their site at Google has changed the way websites are displayed on mobile devices. If your website is not set up for mobile devices ( mobi) then your site will not show up in a search engine. Steve Thompson has looked at several cave sites and has reported that they failed. Y ou may want to test yours out before the busy season at: friendly/ Recently I met Richard Jackson who is the VP of North American Operati ons for IAAPA Rich will be working with the NCA to see how we may best work together and he will have a report for us in an upcoming issue of Cave Talk. Finally, t hank you to many of you for your kind words of condolences on the passing of my 105 year old grandmother, Marguerite Holt. She lived a wonderful long life and we were blessed to have her for so many years. Bob Holt, Executive Director OFFICERS President : Steve Rawlings Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 209 728 2101 Vice President : Patty Perlaky Raccoon Mt. Caverns, TN Ph: 423 821 9403 Secretary Treasurer : Bob Holt Mercer Caverns, CA Ph: 518 231 5420 Past President : Greg Beckler N atural Stone Bridge & Caves, NY Ph: 518 494 2283 et REGIONAL DIRECTORS Region One : (CT, DE, ME, MA, NH, NJ, NY, PA, RI, VT) Rob Arey Polar Caves Park NH Ph: 603 536 1888 Region Two : (MD, VA, WV, KY) John Graves Luray Caverns, VA john.graves@luraycaverns. com Ph: 540 743 6551 Region Three : (IL, IN, MI, OH) Claudia Yundt Squire Boone Caverns, IN Ph: 812 732 4382 Region Four : (AR, IA, KS, MO, NE) Dennis Boyer War Eagle Cavern, AR Ph: 479 789 2909 Region Five : (MN, MT, ND, SD, WI) Tom Hagen Rushmore Cave, SD Ph: 60 5 255 4467 Region Six : (CA, ID, NV, OR, WA, AK, HI, Barbados, Bermuda) Matt Doyle Lake Shasta Caverns, CA Ph: 800 795 CAVE Region Seven : (AZ, CO, NM, UT, WY) Steve Beckley Glenwood Caverns, CO Ph: 970 945 4CAV Region Eight : (LA, OK, TX) Ed Mayfield Caverns of Sonora, TX Ph: 325 387 3105 Region Nine : (AL, FL, GA, MS, NC, SC, TN ) Tim Lacy DeSoto Caverns Park AL Ph: 256 378 7252 Director s at Large Steve Runkle Cave of the Winds, CO Ph: 719 685 5444 Aaron Ginn Sierra Nevada Recreation, CA a sginn Ph: 209 736 2708


Zedd Threw A Truly Insane Party For Fans In A Cave heart of SXSW on a quest to take pictures in front of each of them, and then hustle d to a designated magenta platform in a parking lot. You show the gathered staff the photos, and sign a release that states qualified for a mysterious, all night event headlined, in some way, by Zedd. Andrea Munoz, 21, met the friends she was with at a Zedd concert. All five of them galloped to top 10 finishes in the race, and were doing their best to quell the anxious jitters as the other kids filed in. told me. The vibe was almost like a field trip. Dozens of kids milling about, laughing, unable to stand still those who were too late feeling the same sort of dejection you might feel if your parents ref used to sign a permission slip. The only difference was, instead of school busses, we were riding in limousines. place last Thursday, was the first step in an elaborate s upcoming sophomore album, True Colors In 10 different cities, 50 lucky fans will get shipped out to a truly unique location, eat gourmet food, drink free, colored cocktails, and hear a brand new song from the record. All of this is until now top sec ret, which means the kids in the Austin excursion thought we were headed to a venue, or a festival, not an hour and a half drive to one of the largest caverns in the state of Texas. Thousands of years ago, an underground river cut through limestone sedime nt in Texas hill country, leaving behind a massive cave. In 1971, Longhorn Cavern State Park was declared a National Natural Landmark. In 2015 it served as an absolutely stunning place to throw a party and listen to some new music. just how beautiful the inside of Longhorn Cavern is. 42 Entertainment set up these dreamy purple lights that bounced around the crisp, sculpted walls. The ceilings were high, and impossibly knotted and resolute. You could occasionally see tiny bats hibern ating in the holes that dotted the walls. One room was covered in these soft, sinewy crystals, which 19th century miners mistook for diamonds. cave was set up with a bartender, furniture, and dozens of wait ers bearing appetizers (scallops! lamb! beet salad!), and a playlist curated by a certain producer who was secretly lingering in a private loft above the cave. You could feel the dreams coming true.


from the purple skittles on the limos, the purple drinks, the purple food, the lights tell a story. If I put out one of the True Colors songs ou nervous for this than played. The kids are all handed a free pair of Beats headphones (purple, of course) and jack into the amplifiers scattered around the tables. moment of the whole night happened. Before Zedd debut entered the cave, the staff tests the take off my headphones and hear a room full of kids singing along, unaccompanied, completely un aware of the beautiful music Then Zedd enters, the place becomes unglued, and he tells them about the whole purple True Colors concept, and that mates Bahari. It reminds me a bit of early Justice that glitchy, French house grime that always blacks out a dance For the next couple hours Zedd meets with every single soul that managed to hustle their way into the cave. He signs posters, takes pictures, and stays his affable self. Every fan left with an authentic moment with their favorite producer. Not a bad night. Thanks to Michelle Deva ney at Longhorn Caverns for sharing this exciting event with us.


Earl C. Hargrove, Jr., Owner Of Shenandoah Caverns Passes Joe Proctor, General Manager of The Shenandoah Caverns Family of Attractions is sad to announce that owner Earl C. Hargrove, Jr. has passed away. Mr. Hargrove had a love for Shenandoah Caverns that seemed to have no limit. He truly enjoyed showing this Attraction to visitors from across our nation and the world. He will be missed... Earl Christian Hargrove, Jr. father, friend, entrepreneur and showman, passed away peacefully on the morning of April 6, 2015, surrounded by his family. He was 86 years old. Earl Jr. was born on October 5, 1928 to Cecilia Garrett and Earl Sr. of Richmond, VA. He lived wi th his maternal grandparents until he was eleven years old, when he moved with his parents into a new home in Cheverly, MD. He graduated from Bladensburg High School in 1946 and, at seventeen years old, joined the United States Marine Corps. He celebrated his eighteenth birthday during basic training at Parris Island Marine Corps Boot Camp. He served for two years and was honorably discharged in 1948; he reenlisted in 1951 and served in the Marine Corps until 1954. In 1955, Earl married Gloria Love of Chev erly, MD. In 1958, they purchased a 125 acre farm in Southern Maryland where area for the festive "Christmas Lane" decorations that grew to enchant almost 30,000 visitors annually until its final year in 2002. A proud Marine Corps veteran, he began his career trimming store windows in Washington, DC at the end of World War II. In partnership with his father Earl Sr., their business provid ed holiday decorations, Christmas themed props and patriotic flags for the annual celebrations of local townships. The father son team built parade floats, which toured local festivals in the mid Atlantic region, from Virginia to New Jersey. Parade float building parade floats for President Harry Truman's inaugural in 1949. They began decorating the National Christmas Tree and Pageant of Peace in 1955 an d was named the official decorator for the Miss America Pageant in 1956. Business and political connections lead to more opportunities to design, decorate and produce special events, which would eventually supersede float building as the primary activity o f the company. When his father passed away suddenly during a business trip in 1971, Earl Jr. took the helm to lead Hargrove Inc. seventeen th consecutive presidential inauguration in which the company participated. Hargrove Inc. celebrated sixty continuous years of decorating the National Christmas Tree in 2014 and continues to expand, most recently into experiential marketing with its produ ctions for brands such as Anheuser Busch. Earl fell in love with Shenandoah Caverns in New Market, VA, which he purchased in 1966. It became a vacation destination for his family. Most weekends were spent there with the Proctors, who became their extended family. Earl modified the caverns property in three major phases, each time building a new attraction to delight visitors. He played an active role in the management of the caverns until his final days. Cierra Cecilia, of Crownsville, MD; his daughter Kathleen Hargrove Kelly, her husband Clyde Vernon, grandson Robert Hargrove and fiance Ashley Fay Manger of Grasonville, MD and preceded in death by grandson Clyde Vernon, IV; daughter Carla Hargrove McGill, her husband Timothy Patrick and granddaughter Kelsey Kathleen of Annapolis, MD; daughter Cynthia Diane Hargrove, her husband Michael El i Busada, granddaughter Allison Victoria Kluh and grandson John Joseph Kluh of Lothian, MD; and son Carey Martin Hargrove, his wife Wendy Miller, and grandsons Carson Miller and Hudson Clyde, of Lothian, MD.


A celebration of his life was held Saturday, Apr MD, followed by internment. Donations in memory of Earl C. Hargrove, Jr. may be made to the Marine Corps Scholarship Foundation and be sent to: Marine Corps Scholarship Foundation, Attn: Earl Hargrove Memorial Donations, 909 North Washington Street, Ste. 400, Alexandria, VA 22314 or by visiting Donations may also be made in his name to HEROES, Inc. at www.Heroes Join the LARGEST Gathering of Wholesale Resort & Souvenir Buyers and Vendors in America! Hosting the industry's biggest and best new vendors, IGES constantly brings buyers to the BEST OF THE SMOKIES! 2015 IGES lodging lists are now available online We're excited to add Dollywood's Dreammore Resort & The Margaritaville Island Hotel to our list! Register TODAY for your chance to win 3 nights of FREE lodging at the Wilderness at the Smokies, compliments of IGES! Winners will be drawn once a month from May through September! Our first lodging winner for 2015 will be announced Friday, May 1st Great Trips Make Great Memories.


WNS Report The big news is the USFWS classified the Northern Long eared bat as Threatened with an Interim 4(d) rule. The listing becomes effective May 4 th It is my understanding that rules about caves, including commercial caves, will be issued separately. I am contacting the USFWS and will send updates as I find more information. I hope that everyone will send comments regarding this. How to Comment on Interim 4(d) Rule The comment period on the interim 4(d) rule is open from April 2 to July 1, 2015. You may submit comments by one of the following methods: (1) Electronically: Go to the Federal eRulemaking Portal: http:// In the Search box, enter FWS R5 ES 2011 (2) By hard copy: Submit by U.S. mail or hand delivery to: Public Comments Processin g, Attn: FWS R5 ES 2011 0024 Division of Policy and Directives Management U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 4401 N. Fairfax Drive, MS 2042 PDM Arlington, VA 22203. USFWS requests that you send comments only by one of the methods described above. They will post all comments on This generally means that they will post any personal information provided. Deadline for comments is July 1, 2015 When the listing was announced, the Center for B iological Diversity promptly filed a complaint before the US District Court requesting that the court 1. Declare the Service failed to engage in public process and did not prepare an environmental impact statement before adopting the 4(d) rule 2. Vacate the interim rule 3. Award Plaintiff fees and costs 4. Grant other relief the Court deems just Other Legislation: On 3/24, SD Rep. Kristi Noem introduced legislation to prevent the USFWS from making the threatened species listing, saying the efforts must focus on the disease. Connecticut is considering classifying 5 of its 8 native bat species as endangered. Maine had a public hearing on April 1 st about two bat species being added to its endangered list. New Locations/Closings/Op enings The fungus has been found in a Madison County, Arkansas cave. Six Missouri counties and Floyd County, GA has been added to the suspect list. Boulder closed the east face of a climbing formation until 9/1 to protect bats that are very sensitive to hu man disturbance. The Smokies reopened the Whiteoak Sink area with limited access. It was closed during the hibernating months for the Indiana bat. th with a large decline in bat numbers in a cave in Swain County. Research: In a central Indiana study, three years after detection of WNS in Indiana, big brown bats seem to be showing signs of resilience at the study site Researchers at UC Santa Cruz have tested naturally occurring bacteria from the skin of four bat species. Six of the bacteria they isolated were able to significantly inhibit the growth of WNS in petri dishes. Joseph Hoyt, the graduate student leading the project, said the bacteria may be at too low a level to have an effect on WNS. He hopes to make a spray treatment with the bacteria which would be applied to hibernating bats. They are now experimenting with live subjects. Patty Perlaky WNS Chair


NCA Insurance Column information, news, education and industry hilarity! Playground safety opportunities Because some properties might include playground environments, it is important for caves to recognize that they are held to the same standard as a public playground. Frequent inspections to remove obvious hazards and to ensure proper levels of protective ground cover around equipment are keys to reducing losses that may result on a playground. The National Playground S afety Institute (NSPI) has identified 12 of the leading causes of injuries on these areas as a routine checklist can help support a positive playground risk management program: 1. Improper protective surfacing: Hard surfaces under and around playground equipment can cause injuries if children fall. Replace these surfaces with materials that are soft enough to cushion a fall, such as hardwood fiber/mulch, sand, or pea gravel. Maintain these surfaces at compacted, and make sure they are free of standing water and debris. You can also use unitary materials (synthetic or rubber tiles, shredded rubber, and mats) under play equipment. Consult a vendor certifie d in playground safety before installing these materials. 2. Inadequate use zones: A use zone is the area under and around playground equipment where a child might fall. Make sure to cover use zones with protective surfacing material that extends a minimum of 6 feet in all directions from the edge of the equipment. Some equipment (slides between 6 and 8 feet high and swing sets) needs a larger use zone. 3. Protrusion/entanglement hazards: A protrusion hazard is anything that could impale or cut a child who might fall against it. An entanglement hazard is anything that could catch an item of clothing or jewelry worn around a play equipment. Pay special attention to the area at the top of slides, where gaps and spaces could catch clothing. Anchor ropes securely at both ends so they cannot form a loop or noose 4. Entrapment in openings: Children often enter enclosed openings on play equipment feet first and try to slide through the opening. Even if the opening openings on play equipment should measure less than 3 1/2 inches or gr eater than 9 inches. Pay special attention to openings at the top of a slide, between platforms, and on climbers where the distance between rungs might be less than 9 inches. 5. Insufficient equipment spacing: If there is not enough space between pieces of pl ay equipment, children can fall off one structure and strike another. Each item of play equipment has a use zone around it, and for certain types of equipment, these use zones may overlap. Equipment less than 30 inches high can overlap use zones with 6 fee t between each structure. Equipment higher than 30 inches must have 9 feet between each structure. The to fro area of swings, exit area of slides, standing rocking equipment, and merry go rounds cannot overlap use zones. Install swings and other pieces of moving equipment in an area away from other play equipment.


6. Trip hazards: Exposed concrete footings, abrupt changes in surface elevations, containment borders, tree roots, tree stumps, and rocks are all common trip hazards that are often found in play envi ronments. 7. Lack of supervision: Increased supervision on the playground directly relates to increased safety and fewer injuries. Design your play area so that it is easy for caregivers to observe children at play. Position supervisors so they can immediatel y respond to emergencies. Make sure that elevated play equipment is supervised at all times. 8. Age inappropriate activities: Make sure that your play equipment is age appropriate for the children who will use it. Areas for preschool age children (2 5) should be separate from areas for school age children (5 12). 9. Lack of maintenance: A sloppily maintained playground is dangerous, and can invite vandalism. Make sure play equipment has no missing, broken, or worn out components, and that all hardware and parts a re secure. Maintain the surface material of your play equipment, whether wood, metal, or plastic. Inspect equipment frequently, and replace it as necessary. 10. Pinch, crush, and sharp edged hazards: Inspect play equipment to make sure that there are no sharp edges or points that could cut a child. Check moving components, such as suspension bridges, track rides, merry go rounds, seesaws, and some swings, to make sure that there are no moving parts or mechanisms that might crush 11. Platforms with no guardrails: Make sure elevated surfaces (platforms, ramps, and bridge ways) have guardrails or barriers to prevent falls. Preschool age children are at greater risk from falls, so equipment intended for this age group should have guardrails on elevated surfaces higher than 20 inches and protective barriers on platforms higher than 30 inches. Equipment intended for school age children should have guardrails on elevated surfaces higher than 30 inches and barriers on platforms above 48 inches. 12. Equipment not recommended for public playgrounds: Because accidents have been associated with the following types of equipment, the Consumer Product Safety Commission discourages their use on public playgrounds: Heavy swings such as animal figure swings and multiple occupancy/glider swings. Free swinging ropes that may fray or form a loop. Swinging exercise rings and trapeze bars. You can learn more about playground safety from th e National Recreation and Park A ssociation at Contact Us: If you have any comments, questions or suggestions for the NCA Insurance Column Heather Ginn Insurance Committee Our 50th Anniversary Convention 2015 Wisconsin Has everyone marked their calendars for this year's meeting? House on the Rock Resort will be the headquarters for our 50th anniversary celebration, with Cave of the Mounds serving as our gracious hosts. Our NCA room block is open and we have the entire resort reserved. Make your reservations now so you will be assured a room at the resort, instead of a substitute motel. We anticipate a larger attendance due to our anniversary. The dates are September 21 25. The number at the resor t is 608 588 7000 ... Don't delay! Visit the site: Susan Berdeaux Convention Coordinator Bridal Cave ranked number one spect acular wedding venue by wedding Check out the site: Wedding/tp/5 Spectacular Destination Wedding Venues.htm Bridal Cave wins the "Editor's Choice" Award for the 2015 Best of Rural Missouri Wedding Venue Congratulations


Affiliate of the Month Iconic Caves Welcome Marvelous Mazes Everyone knows that caves and caverns offer an amazing look into inner earth and the fascinations of stalactites and ture to their parks. Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park in Glenwood Springs, Colorado. Located along I 70 midway between Aspen and Vail, Fort WhereAmI maze captures the flavor of the Wild West with this log maze complete with lookout tower -all set against the backdrop of the Rocky Mountains. A log cabin serves as the ticket window as well as the maze entrance and exit. gned to capture some of the cave and cavern mystique has also become a welcome addition at Wildlife Park in central Pennsylvania near State College and 30 minutes from I 80. The park is on the National Register of Historic Places and Prospec was designed to provide a high energy outdoor activity to contrast with the gentle pace and glittering shapes inside the dark cave. The 4,800 square foot maze is a labyrinth of twists and turns that create confusion and surprises ar ound every corner, a light hearted nod to what cave explorers may have experienced when they discovered a new cavern. Set adjacent to a wide grassy pasture and near manicured lawns, the maze site provides visitors with plenty of space to relax or have a pi clock. The most recent member of the cave and maze trio is at Natural Bridge Caverns about 30 minutes north of downtown San Antonio and about eight miles off of I 35. Like undup integrates local history and character into their design. San Antonio has a long and proud family ranching tradition that goes back more than five generations in the Natural Bridge Caverns family. That rugged and rustic style is captured in the three different viewing platforms topped by distressed metal roofs to capture a historic feel as well as provide weather protection. Those elevated decks also allow spectators to watch their family and friends try to navigate their way through the maze. An open air bridge also crosses over the top of the maze for an additional birds eye perspective. their speed through the maze and compete agains highlight a particular theme from natural history and wildlife to cultural motifs. Best of all, for visitors to a park or att raction, human mazes can be operated in all kinds of weather s o there is always something fun to do, even if rain or conditions impact other attractions. And the only energy required to operate a maze is the human energy of children and adults racing through the twists and turns. For more information about a customized human maze, visit


From Deep Down In The Archives... California Convention 1998 California Caverns 23rd International Karstological School & 50th Anniversary International Union of Speleology (UIS), Postojna, Slovenia, June 15 20, 2015 NSS Convention 2015, Waynesville, Missouri July 13 17, 2015 NCA Convention 2015, (50 th Anniversary) Host: Cave of the Mounds, Blue Mounds, Wisconsin, September 21 25, 2015 NCKRI The Sinkhole Conference, Rochester, Minnesota, October 5 9, 2015 ISCA 2015, Germany & Austria, October 17 24, 2015 NCKRI N ational Cave & Karst Management Symposium 2015, Cave City, Kentucky, October 19 23, 2015 IGES/SSS 2015, Sevierville, Tennessee, November 3 6 201 5 & Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, November 4 8 201 5 Smokey Mountain Gift Show 2015, Gatlinburg, Tennessee, November 4 7, 2015 IAAPA 2015, Orlando, Florida, November 16 20, 2015 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2016, Tucson, Arizona, January 30 February 14, 2015 NCA Mid Winter Board of Directors Meeting, Renaissance Airport Hotel, St. Louis, Missouri, February 22 24, 2016 NCKRI Deep Karst Conference 2016, Carlsbad, New Mexico, A pril 11 14, 2016 NSS Convention 2016, Ely, Nevada, July 17 23, 2016 NCA Convention 2016, Host: Squire Boone Caverns, French Lick, Indiana, September 19 23, 2016 IAAPA 2016, Orlando, Florida, November 8 11, 2016 Tucson Gem and Mineral Shows 2017, Tucson, Arizona, January 28 February 12, 2017 NCA Convention 2017, Host: Mark Twain Cav e, Hannibal, Missouri (Dates TBD ) IAAPA 2017, Orlando, Florida, November 14 17, 2017 Got News? Please make sure you let Bob Holt know when you have news to share with the membership regarding you and your cave. It is the goal of the NCA office to produce more issues of Cave Talk and this can only happen when you help with the sharing of your news. P lease send your articles, photographs to June 2015 Cave Talk Deadline Please have all articles to Bob Holt no later than May 15. Thank you


Download Options

No images are available for this item.
Cite this item close


Cras ut cursus ante, a fringilla nunc. Mauris lorem nunc, cursus sit amet enim ac, vehicula vestibulum mi. Mauris viverra nisl vel enim faucibus porta. Praesent sit amet ornare diam, non finibus nulla.


Cras efficitur magna et sapien varius, luctus ullamcorper dolor convallis. Orci varius natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Fusce sit amet justo ut erat laoreet congue sed a ante.


Phasellus ornare in augue eu imperdiet. Donec malesuada sapien ante, at vehicula orci tempor molestie. Proin vitae urna elit. Pellentesque vitae nisi et diam euismod malesuada aliquet non erat.


Nunc fringilla dolor ut dictum placerat. Proin ac neque rutrum, consectetur ligula id, laoreet ligula. Nulla lorem massa, consectetur vitae consequat in, lobortis at dolor. Nunc sed leo odio.